Question about equipment maintenance and repair

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People do love the car analogy…

Modern cars pop up service reminders based on a few metrics, but that doesn’t mean you have to service it then or it will break down, it’s just a guideline. I treat my regulators the same way: I rebuild them based on a service reminder, or when they start to not breathe right, or face an IP creep.

Same with BC’s. I don’t baby them. Eventually they leak a bit through the inflator, and I rebuild them. No big deal to do a dive manually inflating in the meantime.


Service charges can seem high, and there are three main components: technician time, overhead, and parts.

Technician time:
I’m pretty fast at rebuilding a few models of regulators. What can I say, I learned from the best (NetDoc). I use only a few brands, so I’m servicing something every few weeks it seems. I’m fast, and getting faster. To rebuild something different, I’d have to find the manual, download and print it. Then, find the best deal on parts and order them. The rebuild would be slower because I’d have to reference the manual. So, if I were working for a shop, I’d calculate a padded average amount of time to avoid losing money on my time. ustomers seem to prefer this model to charging by the hour, when they don’t know up front what the charge will be. If you have someone educated working on your regulators (you want this!), they probably will want $15-$30 per hour for their time.

Overhead:
If you want a certificate that says you know how to rebuild regs, you have to attend a clinic. You might need to supply current model regulators to practice on. There might be show fees, travel fees, hotel fees, and food. Then you have to invest in tools. I don’t even have all of the fun tools, nor the top of the line tools, and I can tell you, its’ expensive to have a fully outfitted regulator repair bench! You also need liability insurance, a business license, a tax professional, and a lawyer to draft your waivers. Don’t forget the electric bill and your PO box and maybe a 1800 number. You’ll also want a printer, and to set up a deal to take credit cards. Probably a vacuum and things to clean up, and some bleach for your bathroom.

Parts:
Parts aren’t cheap! The cheapest seem to be $12-$20 per stage. If I had to guess, I’d say for a $20 rebuild it, the parts costs the Taiwanese factor $2.50 which they sold to the regulator branding company for $5. That company probably sold them to the dive shop for $10 which resells them to us for $20. Before you call foul, remember they needed a lot of overhead stuff as well as a financial incentive to make the parts. Profit turns greed into helpful actions.


Lets assume that for every dollar of direct labor the shops expects to pay $1.50 in overhead. They pay their mechanic $30 per hour, he works for 1.5 hours to rebuild your first stage with 2 second stages and an SPG. The parts kit for the 1st stage cost $20, the second stages each cost $12, and the SPG orings and cristolube cost another $.25.

Time: $45
Overhead: $67.5
Parts: $44.25
Total: $156.75+tax

That’s in the ballpark of what I hear a lot of people pay. If you adjust it down to paying the mechanic $15 per hour then the total price drops to $100.25. $100-$150 is pretty typical for a completed overhaul.
 
But you conveniently did not comment on the second set of warranty language which says you must have "...annual service by an authorized...".
I have no problems with that caveat. If you want to keep your warranty in force, you have to follow the rules laid out from the onset.

I think you SHOULD have your gear serviced annually, especially if you don't dive it often. Howard was taking exception with the fact that I suggested that working on a reg does not de facto void the warranty. If you try to perform surgery on a reg with a hammer and a chisel, and damage it, then why should anyone expect a warranty for an issue that they caused.
 
People do love the car analogy…

We can always count on you for the makeup analogy! :D :D :D

I’m pretty fast at rebuilding a few models of regulators. What can I say, I learned from the best (NetDoc). I use only a few brands, so I’m servicing something every few weeks it seems. I’m fast, and getting faster.
First, thanks for the more than kind words. Secondly, it's important to note that JahJah's speed does not come from working at a frenetic pace. On the contrary, it comes from his deliberate and systematic approach to servicing regs. He's in no race against the clock and his real goal is precision and not speed. He illustrates the conundrum: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. IOW, JahJah is quick because he's so slow and methodical.

Finally... JahJah is an MBA and does cost analysis for a living. Some people will tell you that he acts a bit anal when it comes to facts and figures. In his defense, I must point out that this is no act! :D
 
I'd love to know the cost anaylsis for repair vs replace then. I own Hog D1 first stages (apx $150 replacement cost ) and second (apx $100 replacement cost each).


One day I'll know all this myself, but for now if I have to pay $100 to get service ... is it really worth it? I have my hunches but would listen to other opinions if the math proved me wrong.
 
I'd love to know the cost anaylsis for repair vs replace then. I own Hog D1 first stages (apx $150 replacement cost ) and second (apx $100 replacement cost each).


One day I'll know all this myself, but for now if I have to pay $100 to get service ... is it really worth it? I have my hunches but would listen to other opinions if the math proved me wrong.


I would say defiantly not worth it. When they are in need of service just send them to me for proper disposal, I'll even pay the shipping costs. But seriously a HOG D1 cold goes for $180 and the D1 second is $110 at DRIS so service would cost you 36% of a new set. I would do the service, but if you decide not to my original offer is still valid:wink:.
 
chrpai:
I'd love to know the cost anaylsis for repair vs replace then. I own Hog D1 first stages (apx $150 replacement cost ) and second (apx $100 replacement cost each).

One day I'll know all this myself, but for now if I have to pay $100 to get service ... is it really worth it? I have my hunches but would listen to other opinions if the math proved me wrong.

Depends on use of course, and of course whether you service the reg or you pay a technician to. But if you are paying say $30 a stage labor plus parts I think a good argument can be made to consider keeping the reg for 3 or 4 years, maintain it well, don't get it serviced, and after 3 - 4 years so it used and buy anew reg. Or get it serviced every other or even third year.

I own ScubaPro and have an investment of more than $350 in the reg and of course want to keep my parts for life going so I fork over $100 a year for service. The first time I miss an annual service and they want to start charging me for parts I'll switch to every other year service.
 
I own ScubaPro and have an investment of more than $350 in the reg and of course want to keep my parts for life going so I fork over $100 a year for service. The first time I miss an annual service and they want to start charging me for parts I'll switch to every other year service.

I just let my Scubapro "parts for life" and all future warranties with them slide into oblivion. One of my posts in the manufacturers forum was pulled by Howard because he said I was antagonizing them with questions. Well Scubapro answered my question of "Would you send us an email before service is due" by sending me an email before mine expired. I applaud SP for letting their customers know when the service due date is coming up via email, assuming they have yours.

Since we already have one set of HOG regs, and I did not feel like paying to continue the warranty at $25 a stage x4 for labor, I figure on Black Friday I will make the switch myself to HOG and just stock service kits for them. In Kona, HI one of the HOG's started free flowing due to a little corrosion. I was able to completely tear the second stage apart on the beach with an adjustable wrench and a tiny Leatherman. If it had been my Scubapro reg I would have had to get my specialty tool which got accidentally left back at the villa. Or go at it with pliers...

In the end selling my Scubapro gear and replacing with HOG, I will actually come out with more cash in my pocket :confused:
 
Is another problem with trying to self service gear that the parts are only sold to dive shops that carry the brands?
 
Well, I almost regret going to Cozumel for a week and missing this amicable discussion.

Maybe SCAM is not the best word. I did find this list of possible alternatives:
blackmail, cheating, con, con game, crooked deal, deceit, deception, dirty pool, double-cross, double-dealing, extortion, fast one, flimflam, fraud, hoax, hosing, hustle, racket, rip-off, shady deal, shakedown, sham, shell game, snow job, sting, sucker game.

And maybe none of these quite fit right either. The truth is that all regulators do not need to be rebuilt annually as attested to by some mfgrs now recommending a 2-year service cycle. But, for some people (who don't take very good care of there gear) and some conditions (like 10 dives per week), even annual service may not be enough. So the manufacturers simply safe side it and go with 1 year. The fact that it helps to make money for there customer LDSs is just a fortunate side spin-off. My regs go 3 to 5 years (or more) between rebuilds and I have not had any problems. But I do keep a spare set of regulators on hand just in case. For the diver who just doesn't want to be bothered, annual service may be the best way to go - if you can find reliable service. I got into DIY because I did not in 4 separate attempts.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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