R109 lever height

[aquaregia]

On a previous thread, someone told me that the older style poppet used a different lever height than the newer style. Would this difference be visually obvious? I just put my levers side-by-side and I can't tell the difference (both have a ~28mm arm). Is the difference too fine to notice, or is it likely that I have the same lever on both?

 

[redacted]

On a previous thread, someone told me that the older style poppet used a different lever height than the newer style. Would this difference be visually obvious? I just put my levers side-by-side and I can't tell the difference (both have a ~28mm arm). Is the difference too fine to notice, or is it likely that I have the same lever on both?

I believe the difference is in the angle of the feet. With over a dozen 109/156 in my regulator corral, I have only seen one incompatible lever. When I adjusted the reg with the cover removed, the lever height was well over 1/2 inch above the rim of the body. When I installed the cover, it took at least a couple more full turns on the orifice to reseal. This results in excessive spring pressure and less poppet travel resulting in a reg that breaths like a dog, at best. With a good lever, lever height will be with 1/4 turn of sealing when the cover is installed.

 

[Couv]

The problems I’ve experienced with the lever is only when used in combination with a new duro poppet. For some reason, the old lever lets the duro poppet slip past the feet and slam into the orifice. The old poppet and lever combination work fine together, as does the new lever & poppet. I'll try an Awap modification on an old lever and new poppet as I have a couple of damaged ones to experiment with. :-(

c

 

[aquaregia]

As mentioned in an earlier thread, I replaced the duro poppet in an older 109 but did not replace the lever. We had a rough time installing the poppet (kept slipping, but I chalked that up to user error) and we also had a hard time tuning it, despite installing a new orifice. We tuned it to about 1.5" and it breathes fine (my assessment is pretty flawed though, as a fairly inexperienced diver) when I breathe normally, but if I suck hard it doesn't deliver as well as my other 109. I measured the lever length and it seemed the same as the others in terms of height. From the sounds of things, I should back the orifices all the way out then measure the height?

ps anyone have a source for the exhaust tees?

 

[redacted]

As mentioned in an earlier thread, I replaced the duro poppet in an older 109 but did not replace the lever. We had a rough time installing the poppet (kept slipping, but I chalked that up to user error) and we also had a hard time tuning it, despite installing a new orifice. We tuned it to about 1.5" and it breathes fine (my assessment is pretty flawed though, as a fairly inexperienced diver) when I breathe normally, but if I suck hard it doesn't deliver as well as my other 109. I measured the lever length and it seemed the same as the others in terms of height. From the sounds of things, I should back the orifices all the way out then measure the height?

ps anyone have a source for the exhaust tees?

I don't know that anyone has definitively defined the physical conflict with old levers and new poppets. I just had the single experience. I too got it to work but performance was substandard. Did you tune the reg initially without the cover in place?

AFAIK, exhaust-Ts are still supported, as least periodically, by Scubapro. Any dealer should be able to get them. I found a dealer who would not sell any internal parts was still willing to sell me exhaust-Ts. But that may have been influenced by the fact that he had 3 in stock and no demand, other than me.

 

[aquaregia]

By "without the cover in place" you mean with the diaphragm installed but not the purge cover & metal face? If so, no, I tuned it completely reassembled.

At the moment, I have three 109s - one I got with the duro poppet, one I replaced the poppet with the duro poppet but did not change the lever, the last has the original poppet. It'd be a good test set for this, but as it's the summer now I don't have access to any backup regs or the magnehelic to retune the one that I'm really happy with, so I'm a bit reluctant to take everything apart (although I'm sure I will anyway).

 

[redacted]

Nope. Leave off all that front stuff (metal cover, rubber cover, and diaphragm) so you are looking at the lever and the inside of the reg. No need to disturb the poppet or the lever. With the front stuff removed, back off on the orifice until it leaks slightly. 1/12th turn in should stop that leak. Lever height should be at or slightly above the rim of the reg body. If not, that may be a problem. Reinstalling the front stuff should result in little of no need for orifice readjustment if lever height is good.

By "without the cover in place" you mean with the diaphragm installed but not the purge cover & metal face? If so, no, I tuned it completely reassembled.

At the moment, I have three 109s - one I got with the duro poppet, one I replaced the poppet with the duro poppet but did not change the lever, the last has the original poppet. It'd be a good test set for this, but as it's the summer now I don't have access to any backup regs or the magnehelic to retune the one that I'm really happy with, so I'm a bit reluctant to take everything apart (although I'm sure I will anyway).

 

[halocline]

From what I have read, there are some older 109s that had 'stepped' feet that would not reliably catch on the new poppets. The official solution to that would be to get a new lever. I believe the new G250 lever is part 11250141 and the 109 (well, balanced adjustable) lever is 11109105. It's possible, if you find a cooperative SP dealer, to give them the b/a part number and find out if that part has been updated to the G250 number. Awap or DA Aquamaster might know. Next time I have a G250 and a 109 apart I'll try to compare the levers.

If in fact your reg has the older lever, it's probably worth buying a new lever if they're available. I bet they're around $20, and it will make you reg work much better. You could remove the lever from the offending reg and compare it to one that you know works fine.

 

[redacted]

From what I have read, there are some older 109s that had 'stepped' feet that would not reliably catch on the new poppets. The official solution to that would be to get a new lever. I believe the new G250 lever is part 11250141 and the 109 (well, balanced adjustable) lever is 11109105. It's possible, if you find a cooperative SP dealer, to give them the b/a part number and find out if that part has been updated to the G250 number. Awap or DA Aquamaster might know. Next time I have a G250 and a 109 apart I'll try to compare the levers.

If in fact your reg has the older lever, it's probably worth buying a new lever if they're available. I bet they're around $20, and it will make you reg work much better. You could remove the lever from the offending reg and compare it to one that you know works fine.

That "new" lever doesn't show up in my schematics until 2001 in an S600. all my 1997 schematics have the 11.109.105 lever in all the Scubapro barrel poppet designs including the G500/G250 and the 109 with the duro poppet. Whatever the lever problem is, it is before either of the above lever part numbers.

 

[halocline]

That makes me think that the levers for the 109 and G250 are the same, just different numbers. The earlier stepped-foot lever (if it exists) might have a different number. I just remember a post from DA Aquamaster saying that some early 109s needed a new lever to be upgraded to balanced/adjustable with the newer poppet. Somewhere in the SB archives there might be a comparison photo of those two levers; I do seem to remember seeing one.