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RAID Cave 1 - Good Course?

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by CaveSloth, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
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    In event of a reg failure you immediately lose access to half of your gas. Manifolded doubles still allow you to access all your gas. While its true that you can't (in theory) go completely OOA in sidemount. Reg failures are far more common and likely than OOA events.

    SM is also an epic PITA on a pitching rolling boat. And its not "easier on your back" when you have all the same gear on to stand up and waddle over to the transom or try to climb a boat ladder anyway. It also wastes the perfectly good place to put stuff, on your back, like a backpack. Once you have 2 deco gasses your cross-sectional area is just as wide as backmount anyway. Plus almost everything about SM is custom fitted and "worn" by the diver. Sharing gear/tanks when you have a failure or you are contributing tanks/gear to a big project you end up adjusting stuff for each individual which takes up time and energy and often ends up being suboptimal.

    I backmount, I sidemount, I backmount CCR and I sidemount a CCR. Picking the right tool for the job is paramount.
     
  2. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
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    Are we talking about regs failing shut here?
     
  3. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,133
    3,040
    113
    Failing shut is rare but can happen
    Or blowing 1/2 water 1/2 air
    Or the DIN to body connection failing
    Or a LP hose splitting and not having the option of feathering
    2nd stage body cracking in half
    etc etc
     
  4. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
    3,897
    2,253
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    Quite rare. Happened to an acquaintance once.

    Excuse the possibly stupid question, but what does that mean?

    Has that happened during the course of a dive?

    Why would feathering not be an option?

    Never thought of that one, but I'm not cave trained.
     
  5. cerich

    cerich ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Georgia
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    you can feather or even switch regs in sm, you absolutely don't "lose all your gas" in a reg failure.

    SM is easier on a pitching boat than doubles if you know how.

    I find it is much easier on my back, on land and in water.

    Agree, it isn't about resistance

    Sharing gas for the majority of sidemounters is just passing the long hose, same as backmount. Some are still stuck on handing off cylinders and there really is no need imho.
     
  6. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,133
    3,040
    113
    remove the exhaust diaphragm from a 2nd stage and try to use it

    Right here his DIN to body fitting has failed.
    Calm-headed response
    Chances are good that the reason he's on the guest's octo is because when this oring fails the gas rushing past creates a venturi effect that sucks water in and the 2nd stage delivers a watery/air mix.

    A split LP hose will not deliver gas to the 2nd stage worth a damn
    And it will drain the tank in about 1-3mins depending on depth.
     
    JohnnyC likes this.
  7. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,133
    3,040
    113
    Some you can, but you cant feather your way out of every type of reg failure.
     
    JohnnyC likes this.
  8. rjack321

    rjack321 Captain

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    9,133
    3,040
    113
    I'm not against SM, I use it and even encourage it sometimes. I encourage beginning cave and tech divers to take at least cave1 (cavern & intro or similar) in BM because 1) it works and 2) in many cases it is the right tool for the job so being capable and competent in this basic configuration is worthwhile. I have actually been cave diving with an experienced, accomplished, full cave explorer who confided in me that they had "no idea" how a manifold worked. That wasn't very inspiring.

    I am against the mindset that SM is ideal no matter what. Which is just weird to me. I don't know anyone who ever said BM is ideal everywhere at anytime because its just so amazing. (or CCR for that matter).
     
    helodriver87 likes this.
  9. cerich

    cerich ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Georgia
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    I also said even switch. Any additional failure points in SM are matched by failure points with an isolator in doubles. In fact IMHO, isolated doubles have proven to be more problematic than what it is supposed to do for safety.
     
  10. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
    3,897
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    I so much prefer taking bottles up and down the slopes on Cove 2 separately (sorry people, but Richard knows what I'm talking about as that is a dive site local to both of us).

    Downsides, I need a head start to kit up in the water before my backmounted buddies.

    I suspect that problem existed as soon as he hit the water. Probably didn't realize it was leaking as he kitted up.
     

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