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Rebuilding regulator and BCD I just bought

Discussion in 'Repairing your own Gear' started by Noa8877, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. Noa8877

    Noa8877 Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: Ventura, CA
    5
    2
    3
    Hi there all,

    I just bough a used set of equipment: ScubaPro Mk10, G250, G190. And Zeagle BCD which I don't know which model it is. It might have a small leak at the lower air/water release part. I would like to rebuild these at some point, or at least the G250, because:

    The G250 leaks in water when I go upside down. Does anyone know what goes bad in the regulator when this happens? I have watched some of Vintage Double Hose youtube videos on the MK10 and G250 rebuild. I am also not sure of exactly all of the tools/parts I would need. I can of course do more searching but I thought I would throw a post out there and see what people respond.

    Also little bubbles come out of the MK10. Is that normal? This doesn't particularly bother me like the G250 problem.

    I got PADI certified when I was 15 but only did ~10 dives in my life. Its been 20 years. I got this equipment to play around with my son in the pool, and also for me to do dives at some point.

    Thanks

    Noah
     
    Khrissi likes this.
  2. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    16,883
    8,598
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    Mk10 bubbling is not normal. Most second stages will breathe a bit wet when you go upside down. This is just due to simple physics and case geometry. Upside down there is going to be some residual air that holds the exhaust diaphragm open. For this not to happen the diaphragm would need to be so stiff that exhalation would require unnecessary effort.
    As to where to start I'd get a copy of regulator savvy from ScubaTools and then download the manuals for the 1st and 2nd. The manuals will tell you what tools you need.
    If you are going to start servicing yourself, I'd plan on a preliminary budget of around 200-250 bucks for tools.
     
    Noa8877 likes this.
  3. couv

    couv Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: 13th floor of the Ivory Tower
    4,723
    2,006
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    Hi Noah,

    Welcome to Scuba Board and to the Dark Side where the evil denizens teach each other how to kill themselves via DIY. I'm going to leave the BCD for later, or better yet someone else. :)

    Actually, that is pretty normal for most regulators. The exhaust valve is situated at the low point of the regulator during most phases of diving to collect water and expel it unnoticed. However, when inverted the exhaust valve is not in a position to remove water. See this post Regulator Inspection and Checklist (Rev-8) for more information on inspecting your regulator and save me a bit of typing.

    No, that's not normal. Coming out of a port where a hose or plug screws into is easily solved with a new o-ring on the offending part. If the bubbles are coming from the ambient chamber that is a bit more serious. Most likely a piston head or stem seal is the culprit and will be replaced when you service it.

    Perhaps you mean an R190? The diagrams and manuals are available at www.vintagedoublehose.com for that model and the other stages in your new collection.

    Parts and service kits can also be purchased from VDH or contact @buddhasummer who also has the items you'll need.

    I suggest you download all of the diagrams and service manuals, watch the videos, take pictures when you take things apart for later reference and get back here with questions, updates, and pictures.

    Good luck.

    Couv
     
    Noa8877 and uncfnp like this.
  4. James79

    James79 Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Lower Alabama
    253
    193
    43
    Can you post a picture? I have 2 old zeagle BCDs I've cleaned up/rebuilt. Don't know how much help I can be, but I'm also just curious!

    Respectfully

    James
     
    Noa8877 likes this.
  5. happy-diver

    happy-diver Skindiver Just feelin it ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: same ocean as you
    1,133
    674
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    Zeagle Great BCDs

    Ranger 44 wing on right with reverse redundant, each with internal elastic

    full.jpg

    Some weird wings externally elasticised

    full.jpg

    all bladders are the same size with differently configured welded fittings

    and if you are an inflator dump holderer, and don't wash the inside of your bc
    full.jpg
    you too can have some


    Anyway thanks for reminding me maybe time to build some harnesses
     
    Noa8877 likes this.
  6. rsingler

    rsingler Scuba Instructor, Tinkerer in Brass Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Napa, California
    3,368
    3,764
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    Hey, welcome to ScubaBoard! At least you'll get a straight answer here. Lots of passionate folks! You can learn SO much here!

    So here's a straight answer: dude, one doesn't know what one doesn't know. As I've said in other posts, regulator service is not complicated, but it is precise! If you truly have less than 25 dives, AND you bought a lot of gear, all of which has problems, AND you don't yet know about reg service, BUT you want to fix it up, let me advise you: you will hurt yourself.

    Reg repair isn't 1970's car repair.
    You have great gear! Those were my original regs in 1985, and I still dive them. But there's economical, and there's crazy. Get them serviced by a good shop. Go diving. Start slowly, and you can do this. But not yet. Not with what you've described.

    I truly don't mean to hurt your feelings. Just assume that right now, reading this, I'm a bit of a curmudgeon.
     
  7. Noa8877

    Noa8877 Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: Ventura, CA
    5
    2
    3
    Hey I appreciate all the responses.

    The reason I said the G250 water problem was bothering me is that... well... the (*corrected*) R190 secondary regulator does not let water in when I go upside down with it, but the G250 main reg does. hmmm. ?

    For now I'm just diving in the pool, playing, practicing, teaching my son. Boat dives are expensive. Also advanced open water diver cert is $500 at my local shop. So I'm not rushing to do anything.

    The MK10 leaks only a little bit out of the small, non-port holes. See from the pictures the small holes near the center of the cylinder. I also posted pictures of the Zeagle BCD. The guy I bought it from said it had only been on 5 dives. I really don't think he was lying to me. I also posted a picture of the Stahlsac bag. Is that a good bag?

    Yeah I'm not sure if I'm going to rebuild them myself. Just looking into it. I was wondering what tools I would need to buy to do this also, to know the initial investment cost. From VDH videos it definitely seems doable. I think my LDS said, correct me if I'm off, $25 for parts for each stage and $90 for labor. I thought he said $90 labor total for the whole regulator. But maybe he meant $90 for labor for each piece.

    edit: oh also, the G250 is not just a bit wet upside down, it lets in a difficult amount of water so that I can't really breathe until I flip over and clear it.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. rsingler

    rsingler Scuba Instructor, Tinkerer in Brass Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Napa, California
    3,368
    3,764
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    Hey, thanks for not taking my comments personally! If you're interested in DIY regulator service, there are lots of us that will help you!
    As for your G250 leaking upside down, while your R190 doesn't, it is probably a matter of tuning. The G250 may be tuned too light. You don't notice it in the normal position, but when your exhaust valve is higher than the diaphragm, differential water pressure opens the valve and it breathes wet or freeflows. If the R190 is tuned "stiffer", then the 1.5" difference in height between the two components when upside down isn't enough to open the valve. Or the G250 may have an exhaust valve flaw that is really noticeable in that position. That much you can do yourself, if you're handy. Take a look where the exhaust tee lies on the bottom of the second stage. On either side, you'll either see a pin that's less than 1/8" diam., or a hex screw on each side. If it's a pin, just push it out from one side of the case. It may be pretty stiff, so use a small hex key to push with. Once you push the pin out, you can just lift the exhaust tee off the valve to inspect the valve disc.
    If it's a hex screw, unscrew both of them (you may need needle nose pliers to pluck them out once they're loose), and as above, lift off the tee.
    Inspect the exhaust valve by delicately lifting the edges. There may be accumulated salt or debris under the edge which you can wipe off after soaking in warm soapy water. If a bug has chewed the edge of the valve, you'll need a replacement.
    Now replace the tee, by either pushing the pin in, or screwing back the screws.

    Next, to test tuning, pressurize your reg, and set it next to the pool on a calm morning. Holding the reg with the mouthpiece UP, slowly submerge it in the water. It will probably begin to hiss before the mouthpiece reaches the surface of the pool. Tuned optimally, it should hiss when the thin line where the cover screws onto the case is about 1-1.5" below the pool surface. If it hisses before it gets that deep, your reg MAY be tuned too light.
    OR...(and this is a big or), your first stage may not only be leaking at an oring, but at the high pressure seat, and the pressure it is supplying to the second stage is dangerously high. Your G250 may appear light, because it is getting ready to vent that excess pressure. Your shop will be able to measure the "Intermediate Pressure" of your Mk10 to tell you. (And you can learn to do this yourself). But the Mk10 clearly needs service.

    Service costs are typically $30 per stage, so $90 labor total. Parts kits range from $20-$40 each. Your G250 may just need tuning, which should be cheaper at most shops (some even do it for free if they're fixing other gear of yours). But do not ignore even slight bubbling from your Mk10. That indicates an absolute need for a tear-down.

    Hope this helps!
     
    Noa8877 likes this.
  9. runsongas

    runsongas Great White

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: California - Bay Area
    3,444
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    @rsingler reg repair is of similar difficulty to car repair imo

    if you are the type that can rebuild a carb over the weekend in your garage, you are likely able to rebuild your own reg
     
    Noa8877 likes this.
  10. rsingler

    rsingler Scuba Instructor, Tinkerer in Brass Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Napa, California
    3,368
    3,764
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    I agree.
    It all depends upon what you think of when you think "car repair". Like I said, not complicated, but precise.
     
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