redundant air at less than 30'?

[davidbaraff]

I've seen a lot of people recommending redundant air for solo'ing. I know I have only about 50 dives, which many would consider few, but I feel (from observation) that I had an extremely competent instructor, did training in Monterey so I've been doing coldwater diving from the start, and was actually encouraged to do my first solo dive in a very simple environment where the max depth i could find was about 20'.

I did a bunch of solo dives at Casino Point last April, and when I did, I was careful to keep 30' as a very hard limit. I kind of feel at 30' like that's only a bit deeper than a swimming pool.

The only hazard I could really imagine at Casino Point was the kelp -- and for the life of me, I can't imagine how anybody gets so entangled in kelp they die in it, short of hugging it and twirling around a few times. When I'm solo'ing I keep sharp awareness of whether or not i'm under a thick bed of kelp. I mean, the kelp doesn't ever reach out and grab you on its own, does it?

So do people still recommend redundant air if you're scrupoulously maintaining a 30' limit, in an area like that? Under what conditions, at 30', would that be a better choice than a CESA?

The other thing I think is that if I have a buddy, and I needed them suddenly, I'm not necessarily likely to be so on top of them if I'm shallow at 30' or less, and if I had an OOA issue, I'd just go up (but the only OOA I can imagine is equipment malfunction -- not noticing my gas supply ain't happening).

Dr. Bill, if you're reading, interested in any thoughts, particularly since Casino Pt. is your backyard. Staying shallow there seems like a very non-challenging dive condition, similar to shallow spots in Monterey (e.g. Lover's 1 or Coral Street), particularly given that one is familiar with the area and bloody unlikely to get lost. (And like you said, the two times I went with a buddy there were more dangerous -- I ended up following them deeper than I wanted to, when they got lost, and then the skipped their safety stop due to not enough air. I had plenty, they never asked, just surfaced.)

 

[DCBC]

If you don't have any difficulty doing a free-ascent / CESA from this depth after an exhalation, you don't require redundant air at 30' in an unrestricted environment.

 

[idocsteve]

I carry a 19cf pony even on shore dives that are as shallow as 10-20 feet. I don't push the limits just because I have the redundancy, but I feel more confident and relaxed knowing it's there.

For me, that makes the dive more enjoyable, and it's not much more work strapping it onto my main tank and taking it wherever I need to go.

 

[redacted]

I do not carry a pony for shallow solo dives (10 to 40 ft). I do carry it for dives over 60 ft.

 

[idocsteve]

Anecdotal story time.

I was in the Cayman's last month and did a shore dive out of Sunset House. We were warned of the current but opted to continue with the dive. On the way out I was unaware of any significant current, I turned the dive at 1300 psi and found us making little headway against what was a significant outgoing current. I soon exhausted most of my air and surfaced with 500 lbs. I swam directly towards the shore, which was not where we entered, my less experienced female buddy who had more gas remaining than I did, opted to descend and swim diagonally back to our entry point.

On the way in I drained my main tank and switched to my Pony, which gave me enough gas to safely return to shore. Even if I had a snorkel, it would have been difficult given the choppy surface conditions.

People screw up, nature throws curveballs, current can change. You never know.

If you have the gear, use it.

 

[redacted]

Anecdotal story time.

I was in the Cayman's last month and did a shore dive out of Sunset House. We were warned of the current but opted to continue with the dive. On the way out I was unaware of any significant current, I turned the dive at 1300 psi and found us making little headway against what was a significant outgoing current. I soon exhausted most of my air and surfaced with 500 lbs. I swam directly towards the shore, which was not where we entered, my less experienced female buddy who had more gas remaining than I did, opted to descend and swim diagonally back to our entry point.

On the way in I drained my main tank and switched to my Pony, which gave me enough gas to safely return to shore. Even if I had a snorkel, it would have been difficult given the choppy surface conditions.

People screw up, nature throws curveballs, current can change. You never know.

If you have the gear, use it.

My wife and I pulled that kind of a stunt in Cozumel once putting in at the Light House and going out to Villa Blanc headed back to Scuba Club in stronger than normal currents. Ended up exiting at what was them Plaza Las Glorius (Coz Palace) and walking back. I had to carry two tanks and listen to it all the way back. Sure am glad I didn't also have a pony or two. I probably should have spent the 50 pesos I kept in my weight belt for just such occasions.

 

[idocsteve]

My wife and I pulled that kind of a stunt in Cozumel once putting in at the Light House and going out to Villa Blanc headed back to Scuba Club in stronger than normal currents. Ended up exiting at what was them Plaza Las Glorius (Coz Palace) and walking back. I had to carry two tanks and listen to it all the way back. Sure am glad I didn't also have a pony or two. I probably should have spend the 50 pesos I kept in my weight belt for just such occasions.

Yeah I would have taken the cab for the equivalent of about $5 US.

 

[Scott L]

I carry a 19cf pony even on shore dives that are as shallow as 10-20 feet. I don't push the limits just because I have the redundancy, but I feel more confident and relaxed knowing it's there.

For me, that makes the dive more enjoyable, and it's not much more work strapping it onto my main tank and taking it wherever I need to go.

After all your chatter on the merits of the Spare Air product the past few months you now declare ownership of a 19cu ft pony? You are indeed a provocateur....

 

[idocsteve]

After all your chatter on the merits of the Spare Air product the past few months you now declare ownership of a 19cu ft pony? You are indeed a provocateur....

No, I made my position clear quite a while ago.

I have posted several times that I carried a Spare Air for years and as far as I'm concerned it served it's purpose but I prefer the additional capacity of a 19cf Pony, and the knowledge that it will most likely get me to the surface safely from almost any recreational scuba diving depth, whereas a Spare Air has it's limitations and cannot be relied upon in every situation I might find myself in.

I sold my Spare Air on Ebay just last week after realizing that it went from being used constantly, to being used rarely, to sitting in my closet for several years.

 

[Scott L]

No, I made my position clear quite a while ago.

That's simply not the case. You argued incessantly on the Speigel Grove accident thread with those including myself who advocate for the use of a larger pony cylinder. You indicated the Spare Air cylinder was sufficient for the task of diving in general and the subject dive of the thread. I cannot now refrence your posts as the moderator temporarily closed the thread to remove off-point and unhelpfull information most of which was yours. They reopened the thread soon therafter then you started up again at which case they closed the thread for good....