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Rescue or ???

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by MissBehavin, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. wetb4igetinthewater

    wetb4igetinthewater Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Seattle
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    Sadly, I've been told by a CD/IT that whenever he sees trouble, he swims the other way to be as far from it as possible. I was a bit shocked that a CD/IT would say that, so I didn't ask why. My suspicions was that it was due to (inevitable?) litigation. But I still find that cold. But the lawsuit against Ritchie Kohler was insane. I wish he would have been awarded lawyer fees plus compensation for his time.
     
    markmud likes this.
  2. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,457
    1,063
    113
    and that is where the legal battle resides.
     
    markmud likes this.
  3. Bob DBF

    Bob DBF Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: NorCal
    6,717
    7,147
    113
    Now that may get you in way more legal trouble than a Rescue cert ever will.:wink:


    Bob
     
    markmud, KWS and wetb4igetinthewater like this.
  4. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    8,307
    6,032
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    What is your position, exactly? Are you going to try to help someone who needs help, or not? All of the rest of this noise is...noise.
     
    dumpsterpurrs likes this.
  5. Esprise Me

    Esprise Me Kelp forest dweller ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
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    I asked a while back if anyone knew of a specific instance of someone being sued (not necessarily with a judgment entered against them) on the basis that they failed to rescue someone despite having a rescue diver certification. A few examples in that general vicinity were given--a guy who happened to be rescue certified but was actually accused of murder, a guy who was actually an instructor (and therefore a professional, which is generally a whole different ballgame), but nothing quite on point. I tend to think the risk is overstated.
     
    dumpsterpurrs likes this.
  6. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
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    Here we see the cultural difference among countries...
    Here in Italy everyone is OBLIGED to help endangered people at the best of his/her capabilities, whatever their certification. Going away and avoiding to give help is a severe crime, which is prosecuted by the public attorney. And this without anyone suing anyone else. If found guilty of help omission, one goes into jail for some years, in case the missed help caused the death of someone.
    So here it is legally quite risky NOT to give help...
    Of course this is not only for scuba diving, it is also for swimmers, cliffhangers, skiers, on the road, in any public or private site.
    When young, I was certified as a professional caregiver both for swimming pools and in the sea. Of course this certification lasts only one year, and must be renowned every year after a thorough medical visit, as it allows to work in the surveillance staff. Every 5 years you have to repeat the exam, so I gave up. But it was required for becoming diving instructor.
    I also did apply in the civil protection as a volunteer, but in this case not for providing help to people still alive, but as an expert in recovery of dead bodies (mostly in muddy waters of rivers) . After doing this for a couple of years, and after one successful body recovery, I did get the acceptance for doing my military service as a firefighter, instead of as a normal soldier.
    During that year as firefighter I made dozens of live actions, also including savage of endangered people, a couple of times.
    So please understand my point of view: who turns away from a danger situation where there is people risking their life, when he could provide useful help, is a coward and an human excrement!
    The risk of being sued appears of little relevance to me, it is just a civil action, it is just money, in the end.
    But how could I sleep again, knowing that someone has lost his or her life, and I could have saved them and turned away? How this can even be suggested, here on Scubaboard? Who is giving such advice should be prosecuted too! And here we have also that type of crime, it is called "apologia di reato" (crime apology), up to three years in jail...
     
  7. pauldw

    pauldw Solo Diver

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    What an attorney wants is an easy payoff from an insurance company. Then, 1/3 of that settlement money as a contingency fee, with 2/3 going to their client. If you can keep that mill going with a series of easily negotiated settlements, that's great. What attorneys don't want is to get bogged down, and nothing bogs things down like a trial. Or even litigation on paper. They aren't as bad a group of scammers as realtors, but they're pretty bad.

    P.S.: It's not relevant to a dive case, but I love this video of Texas lawyers at their best; there's a lot of bad language, though:
     
  8. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,457
    1,063
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    My position is irrelevant. The issue boils down to what could happen when someone finds the right lawyer to make ones like hell. If the concept of good samaritan was a solid one,,,, the fear would not be there to be discussed. There are also possibly 50 different legal interpretations of the statute given there are 50 states. I know it is not the same exactly but how long do you look for a lost buddy. Till you run out of air your self?????
    I think the fees are much ligher now . Its not unusual for fees of 40% plus expenses. In other words nearly all of an award
     
    markmud likes this.
  9. KWS

    KWS ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: SE TEXAS
    4,457
    1,063
    113
    But this is not Italy. and because of your laws,,, there are probably also greater protections for those the are much more clear perhaps. In the US we live in a law suit society. A society that in many cases uses legal manipulation for personal gain. You pull over to the side for a road to render assistance and you get mugged. That does not apply to diving but it does apply to the ingrained mindset that governs the willingness for people to give assistance under any general situation..
     
    markmud likes this.
  10. dumpsterpurrs

    dumpsterpurrs Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Southeast Asia
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    For one minute,which you would know by now if you've taken the rescue course properly.

    The diving world is much, much larger than "the 50 states," most of it in the far more reasonable parts of the globe where people understand helping others is a desirable thing to do. If you think something is a bad idea for those in your situation, then stop there. What's the point of making sure the rest of the world follows your silly paranoia that has nothing to do with our contexts?

    I'm sorry if my words seem harsh, but you strike me as someone who takes his argument from a tiny grain of sand and insist the entire ocean floor must be exactly the same, without ever being in the water. You went on a multi page rant about how disabled divers shouldn't be trusted to rescue others, while you yourself doesn't have any clue what disabilities mean and what our diverse lived experiences are like. I'd suggest you take a step back and contemplate on the vastness of the universe. Remember how little we know about it all, and sit humbly in your opinions.

    Disabilities are not defections. Lawsuits are mostly a US thing. Let's get over it.
     
    greeniguana likes this.

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