Responsibility of the Intro Instructor

[RonFrank]

Based on the story as told, I'd say it's inconclusive.

Did the diver want to go back down after the first ascent? Was she experiencing reverse block? When did the bleeding begin? Did it happen during the decent, or ascent, and on which one? How long was the diver down? Did the instructor ascend once the diver went to the surface? Did the student have an uncontrolled ascent, and then go back down before the instructor could surface? Was the student clearing properly during the decent?

You can't post a report that leaves out most of the details, and then ask for opinions on negligence and expect to get an educated response. So, you were not there, and reporting this second hand, now you want others opinions and none of us have enough facts to IMO make any sort of reasonable conclusion, especially on if to BLAME the instructor based on sketchy third party information.

I would talk this over with the instructor AND the student before making any conclusions. I know this is NOT what you may want to hear, but there is always two sides to any story, and then the truth usually lies somewhere inbetween. I doubt the newbie non-certified diver with pain had a clear enough head to even be aware of all that may have been going on.

 

[Web Monkey]

My bad; I should have asked for knowledgeable opinions :mooner:

Nice.

Here's one. This woman's "experience" was not unique or unexpected.

The world is full of people who will never dive because they were injured or terrified after their first completely unqualified underwater experience.

Terry

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

[GOOGLE][/GOOGLE]

Nice. Thats what you have taken this to. You didn't get the opinions you wanted so you have to resort to belittling my abilities and knowledge. That says volumes about you my friend.
I will state this again for the last time. You posted up asking for opinions. No one made you do it. If you don't like the responses you got then I don't know what to tell you. You brought it on yourself.
For the record.... this is posted in the accidents and incidents section. Not instructor to instructor.
Now you have shown your true colors and I am done with you.

Again with the reading comprehension problem. I never said this was I2I, just that your post was a "perfect example of why DM's should not be allowed to post in I2I."

You chose to blame me for taking her on 2 dives without incident? "I don't want to sound like an ass but don't you hold some responsibility here?" Those dives were two and a half years ago. She had so much fun she still wants to get certified. She had so much fun she decided to do another intro dive, on a different Island than the one I live on with an operator I have no relationship with.

In your opinion I am to blame for successfully conducting a private intro dive and then not counting the second "intro" dive as OW 2 towards certification?

That is a pretty ignorant opinion!

 

[Web Monkey]

I know that this won't be popular, but I have to say it anyway.

The entire concept of "Discover SCUBA Diving" is nothing but a plan to separate tourists from their money without the "inconvenience" of having to sit through OW class, and it comes at the expense of the safety of the tourists.

Do you know what would have completely eliminated this? A good Open Water Class with a responsible instructor. No OW card = No OW. If you stop sending unqualified divers into the water, they'll stop getting hurt.

You guys are sitting around arguing about how to best play Russian Roulette. The Bad News is "The best way is to not play"

Terry

 

[Teamcasa]

I know that this won't be popular, but I have to say it anyway.

The entire concept of "Discover SCUBA Diving" is nothing but a plan to separate tourists from their money without the "inconvenience" of having to sit through OW class, and it comes at the expense of the safety of the tourists.

Do you know what would have completely eliminated this? A good Open Water Class with a responsible instructor. No OW card = No OW. If you stop sending unqualified divers into the water, they'll stop getting hurt.

You guys are sitting around arguing about how to best play Russian Roulette. The Bad News is "The best way is to not play"

Terry

Sorry Terry I have to disagree.
I (happily) paid to have my nephew and his son to join us on a Discover Scuba dive last year in Hawaii and just recently paid to have another nephew and two grand nephews experience the thrill of Discover Scuba on Catalina Island.
Video here YouTube - Discover Scuba Dive for Wade Austin and Gilbert

Sure, I could have enrolled them in classes, but since the two grand nephews are only 10 and 11, the courses would have to be re-taken again once they reached 14. Who knows if they will still even be interested.

The other nephew, is now excited about diving and has signed up for his OW class. My brother and his wife took a discover class and now he is certified buy his wife is not a fan and will not take the class.

My lovely bride only became interested in Scuba after a SNUBA dive, now she is just 6 dives short of her 100th in less than 3 years.

Now, if someone is excited about Scuba and is determined to do it, they don't need Discover Scuba but clearly, some do benefit from it.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Sure, I could have enrolled them in classes, but since the two grand nephews are only 10 and 11, the courses would have to be re-taken again once they reached 14.

My only question here is why would they have to retake the course once they reach 14?

 

[Teamcasa]

My only question here is why would they have to retake the course once they reach 14?

I'm not a PADI instructor but I was lead to believe that once they reached 14, they would have to re-certify for OW.

 

[*dave*]

I'm not a PADI instructor but I was lead to believe that once they reached 14, they would have to re-certify for OW.

I'm not PADI, either. But, that's about the policy for SSI, except they need to be 15 for a full OW cert.

Looking at the PADI site, it appears that is not the case with them. Why am I not surprised?

Prerequisites
To enroll in the PADI Open Diver course or Junior Open Water Diver course, you must

* Be 10 years or older (PADI eLearning requires a minimum age of 13 years due to international internet laws

They mention Junior OWD in the prerequisites, but it doesn't appear in their matrix:

http://www.padi.com/scuba/padi-cour...ll-padi-courses/open-water-diver/default.aspx

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The PADI Jr. Open Water student theoretically completes the same class with the same manual as every other PADI Open Water student. 15 is the magical age where one is no longer a Jr OW or Jr. AOW diver. I have seen quite a few adults who still use their Jr. cards as proof of certification. To get a normal OW card with a picture not so young all one has to do is purchase and submit a PIC with a new pic.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

So a 14 y/o who takes the SSI Open Water course would have to take another SSI Open Water course to be recognized as an SSI Open Water diver at age 15?

I went to the SSI site and could only find info about Scuba Rangers (age 8-12), but nothing about Jr Open Water.