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Retiring Tanks based on age alone

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by MrNrge, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. ams511

    ams511 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Miami, Florida
    7,200
    2,005
    Many people have died in airplane crashes, does that mean you do not fly? Many people have died in car accidents, does that mean you do not drive? People have died from food poisoning while eating in restaurants, do you avoid restaurants? If the answer to any of these questions is no, your reasoning is not rational.
     
  2. Superlyte27

    Superlyte27 Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Florida
    4,160
    3,323
    I don't personally know anyone who has died in an airplane crash. I don't know anyone who has died in a car accident. I don't know anyone who has died from food poisoning. No one can eliminate all risk in their lives. However, I can mitigate some risk by avoiding these tanks. Seems perfectly rational to me. When you have a compressor, you can choose what tanks you fill with it.
     
    Chugwhump likes this.
  3. Chugwhump

    Chugwhump Contributor

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: SE Florida, the flattest part, I can see Mount Pom
    1,911
    843
    I pride myself on being polite in life and on SB as a rule but I am in a VERY FOUL mood with direction this conversation already going.

    Let eat me make this VERY VERY SIMPLE for all you rebels and scientists that might visit SoFla with your ancient eddy current examined tanks.

    You can take your ancient evil alloy tanks and put them where the moon don't shine.

    We do not want them in SE Florida as a rule, although there are several shops and individuals that will fill them.

    I personally do not patronize any shop that handles them, not because of that, but because so few shops fill them.

    I do not like them, I do not have to justify that to you, and if I find myself in a shop when you show up with these "a one in a million bombs", and attempt to bully the typically young tank monkey into filling one, as has occurred in my presence several times, I will be in your face and on the phone to every dive shop within 20 miles that you are on the loose.

    Chug
    Thinks all aluminum tanks with evil alloy ought to be scrapped, and older than 20 years turned into BBQ grills.
     
  4. ams511

    ams511 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Miami, Florida
    7,200
    2,005
    What does knowing anyone personally have to do with anything? People die in aircraft, cars, and even after eating in restaurants. You can mitigate more risk by walking and eating at home. Do you do it?

    BTW, a year or so ago an O2 tank exploded when I think a diver dropped it. Should we ban O2 tanks?
     
  5. tomfcrist

    tomfcrist NAUI Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Virginia, USA
    2,895
    1,803
    Chug, you would get in my face for trying to get a non 6351 tank made in 1992 filled? I hope you have good medical insurance.

    Luxfer quit using 6351 in 1988(25 years ago) and the only cylinder mfg to keep using that alloy was Walter kiddie up through 1990. Catalina NEVER used this alloy and quite frankly the MAJORITY of cylinders from that era that are still around are NOT made from 6351.
     
  6. ams511

    ams511 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Miami, Florida
    7,200
    2,005
    Who cares what Chug thinks? Who sets the rules for SE FL? You? If old aluminum tanks are bad then they should be exploding all over the place. Truth is that they are not. Metal fatigue has more to do with the number of cycles than with age, that is why the tanks need to be inspected yearly rather than discarded after a length of time. If you are so concerned about tank safety then why don't you go on a crusade against cave fills and shoddy tank inspection techniques?

    ---------- Post added November 29th, 2013 at 07:15 PM ----------

    The sad fact is he is not alone in his opinion. When I moved back to Florida in 1996 shops did not want to fill 15 year old and older aluminium tanks out of ignorance. This is regardless of alloy or manufacture. Now most shops seem to have relented and will inspect and fill them. Some will fill them only if they inspect the tanks.
     
  7. Superlyte27

    Superlyte27 Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Florida
    4,160
    3,323
    No, we shouldn't ban O2, we should however strap our tanks so they can't be knocked over. We shouldn't leave them standing up where they can fall over, and we should be more careful when transporting.... again mitigating damage.

    Now, to answer your other question.... Knowing what my friend went through, what the family went through, the feelings, the headaches, the drama with DOT and OSHA and Worker's Compensation... then the guilt of not being able to stop it from happening.... I can stop all of that just by not having the tanks in my shop. I can't change the world, but I can change the chance of someone dying from a bad alloy tank in my presence. And that's good enough for me.
     
    NAM001 likes this.
  8. Scared Silly

    Scared Silly ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: on the path to perdition
    5,939
    1,586
    Chug instead of being a nattering nabob of negativism next time try to add the conversation. For instance, one can make logical argument against filling AL6351 cylinders, namely that the scuba industry is not competed in terms of self regulation and the competent inspection of scuba cylinders. Which is not surprising that some seven years ago DOT starting requiring hydro stations to perform such inspections (i.e. eddy current test on AL6351 cylinders). However, one can not make a logical argument regarding all cylinders older than 20 years which what seems to be prevalent in parts of Florida.

    As for being polite yet threatening to stick things where the moon don't shine, getting into someone's face, etc. is quite hypocritical especially for someone coming from the "sunshine" state.

    Speaking of your 'one in a million" most have about the same chance of being struck by lighting, but as you are in Florida it is about 1 in 600,000. I hope ya got a good ground but somehow I doubt.

    Finally your rant to include scientists reminds me of a quote from one of the greatest minds of the 20th century: "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."

    I now return you to your flat earth tea party.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  9. Gilldiver

    Gilldiver Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Northeast US
    1,770
    139
    I don't have much of a problem with the older aluminum, as long as they are used "on condition." that means that they pass all required testing and are in general good shape - BTW, I did get rid of all of my old aluminum tanks a while ago as 1) I don't need the old aluminum debate when I am out of my dive area and 2) After 35 years I have more tanks than I need anyway. At the end of the day, aluminum tanks are like tires on your car and should be replaced every now and then.

    As for steels, they are always on condition and the oldest steel I currently have in service was born in early 1960 and is "+" rated still. When I get someone saying that they don't fill any tank over 20 years old no matter if they are steel or aluminum, I ask them if they ever looked at their compressor bank tanks - caught more than a few with steel bank tanks getting fillled 3+ times a day that were from the 1930's and older. Doesn't do any good for that shops rules, but it can be good fun making a complete fool out of the expert.
     
  10. scubastingray

    scubastingray Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Cleveland/Jacksonville
    696
    186
    I'm in the process of scrapping two tanks. One is a luxfer from 83, and an offender. It'd probably pass as it had 3k psi in it still from years ago and looked to be in great shape. The other is a catalina, but due to the ignorance of shops they assume anything pre 90 is a ticking time bomb. It's honestly less work to find something used to replace it and use it as a floor lamp than to deal with the "that's the bad alloy" talk every time on the catalina.
     

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