tilikum
Banned
Go Pro sticks should be banned on all boats
Rude divers
- Thread starter KatieMac
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A couple years ago I was lucky enough to dive with some folks in the Maldives who almost changed my opinion of the Go Pro On A Stick crowd.
It turns out that not every diver who uses such a rig is a jerk, just most of them.
It turns out that not every diver who uses such a rig is a jerk, just most of them.
Amen.
Now, a Go Go Go Pro diver can zip around, chasing everyone, sticking their camera in front of every diver they see who has stopped and is really looking, in the hopes that when ZippyDiver gets home and looks at their video they can actually see whatever the other diver was looking at.
I had a bad experience with one on a Roatan trip. It was as I described: seemingly everywhere I went, I could see this stick out of the corner of my eye. She never actually shoved the GoPro in front of me, thank god. She was probably following a normal distance behind and to the side of me, but because of the stick it felt like she was in my space. I'm sure the stick can be used responsibly.
It also seemed to make it easier to harass marine life--get in THEIR space. Because it is so easy to just stick the GoPro in front of whatever animal, the photographer didn't seem to give it much thought, just swimming here and there and sticking the GoPro everywhere for a few seconds in hope it captured something. The traditional photographer has to give more thought to setting up the shot, and in the process of that probably gives at least a little thought to whether it might bother the subject animal.
It also seemed to make it easier to harass marine life--get in THEIR space. Because it is so easy to just stick the GoPro in front of whatever animal, the photographer didn't seem to give it much thought, just swimming here and there and sticking the GoPro everywhere for a few seconds in hope it captured something. The traditional photographer has to give more thought to setting up the shot, and in the process of that probably gives at least a little thought to whether it might bother the subject animal.
tilikum
Banned
Which is why I prefer solo diving.
I was quite surprised on a live aboard in the Maldives to dive with several had learned to do so.
It seems that the selfish stick does not, in itself, create rude divers, but rude divers sure do seem to be quite attracted to them!
Bubblesong
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As you were...
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The thread's certainly taken some interesting twists. And now that we've got the usual stereotyping out of the way, let me just point out that for the most part these aren't rude divers at all. Their behavior usually boils down to one of three things ... either they don't have the skills to stay out of your way, they aren't aware that they're doing it, or they simply have different priorities than you do.
Cameras can be a problem ... they introduce a level of task loading that a lot of divers aren't prepared to deal with. They tend to focus the diver's attention on what's going on within the frame of the camera, and that is problematic for those divers who lack the ability to see beyond the frame. This is true whether you're carrying a point-n-shoot, a GoPro on a stick, or a full-size rig ... although the bigger rigs do tend to add more task loading, as they generally include external strobes, focus lighting, and perhaps some manual operation that the point-n-shoot cameras don't. And so those who carry the larger setups can be suspect. But a lot of people carrying the larger setups tend to be more experienced, and have the skills needed to know how to use them responsibly. I think, for the most part, cameras are less of an issue than the fact that divers tend to adopt their use far too early, and before they've given themselves time to acquire a decent skill set to use them properly.
Awareness is a huge problem ... primarily because it's one of the most undertaught skills in scuba training. When you put a mask on your face you remove something you've had your entire life, and therefore have learned to take for granted ... peripheral vision. As a result, people tend to ignore that which is not in the rather narrow field of vision afforded by their scuba mask ... because they haven't trained themselves of the necessity to turn their head from side to side in order to see what's just outside their mask's visual range. They tend to miss the visual cues that peripheral vision affords ... and their behavior is affected accordingly. Introductory scuba training would be much better if it offered at least some rudimentary awareness skills, rather than leaving it to the diver to develop those on their own. And of course, adding a camera simply exacerbates that problem for the new diver, who chronically lacks any awareness skills to begin with.
But the only ones who I would say might really fit in the rude diver category are those who simply don't care. These could be folks who have a bucket list of things they want to see or do during the dive, and are so focused on those things they don't give much thought to how it might affect the divers in the water around them. We've all dived with these people ... they don't put any effort into staying with their buddy, wandering off or stopping whenever they feel like it. Or they zoom off at high speed, intent on getting somewhere, leaving their dive buddy to spend the whole dive doing little else but trying to keep up with them. These divers are not very enjoyable folks to dive with. Or maybe they're the ones who will not give way to anyone else when they find that special critter that everyone wants to see or take a picture of. They'll take 150 pictures of the same thing, in quest for the "perfect" shot ... while everyone else is waiting for a chance for just a shot or two, or just give up and move on. The biggest issue with these folks is that they're completely self-focused, and thinking in terms of "my" dive rather than "our" dive. It sucks to be their dive buddy. It sucks to be in a group that includes them. But in real life, they're probably not rude at all ... it's more a matter of how they prioritize the dive, which generally puts those they dive with at a level below their own personal wish list. They're so focused on what they want to do that they don't have any room to consider how it affects anyone else.
We've really talked about all of those people at some point in the thread ... but they're very different people, and their behavior is the result of very different issues. And for the most part, rudeness has little to do with any of it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Cameras can be a problem ... they introduce a level of task loading that a lot of divers aren't prepared to deal with. They tend to focus the diver's attention on what's going on within the frame of the camera, and that is problematic for those divers who lack the ability to see beyond the frame. This is true whether you're carrying a point-n-shoot, a GoPro on a stick, or a full-size rig ... although the bigger rigs do tend to add more task loading, as they generally include external strobes, focus lighting, and perhaps some manual operation that the point-n-shoot cameras don't. And so those who carry the larger setups can be suspect. But a lot of people carrying the larger setups tend to be more experienced, and have the skills needed to know how to use them responsibly. I think, for the most part, cameras are less of an issue than the fact that divers tend to adopt their use far too early, and before they've given themselves time to acquire a decent skill set to use them properly.
Awareness is a huge problem ... primarily because it's one of the most undertaught skills in scuba training. When you put a mask on your face you remove something you've had your entire life, and therefore have learned to take for granted ... peripheral vision. As a result, people tend to ignore that which is not in the rather narrow field of vision afforded by their scuba mask ... because they haven't trained themselves of the necessity to turn their head from side to side in order to see what's just outside their mask's visual range. They tend to miss the visual cues that peripheral vision affords ... and their behavior is affected accordingly. Introductory scuba training would be much better if it offered at least some rudimentary awareness skills, rather than leaving it to the diver to develop those on their own. And of course, adding a camera simply exacerbates that problem for the new diver, who chronically lacks any awareness skills to begin with.
But the only ones who I would say might really fit in the rude diver category are those who simply don't care. These could be folks who have a bucket list of things they want to see or do during the dive, and are so focused on those things they don't give much thought to how it might affect the divers in the water around them. We've all dived with these people ... they don't put any effort into staying with their buddy, wandering off or stopping whenever they feel like it. Or they zoom off at high speed, intent on getting somewhere, leaving their dive buddy to spend the whole dive doing little else but trying to keep up with them. These divers are not very enjoyable folks to dive with. Or maybe they're the ones who will not give way to anyone else when they find that special critter that everyone wants to see or take a picture of. They'll take 150 pictures of the same thing, in quest for the "perfect" shot ... while everyone else is waiting for a chance for just a shot or two, or just give up and move on. The biggest issue with these folks is that they're completely self-focused, and thinking in terms of "my" dive rather than "our" dive. It sucks to be their dive buddy. It sucks to be in a group that includes them. But in real life, they're probably not rude at all ... it's more a matter of how they prioritize the dive, which generally puts those they dive with at a level below their own personal wish list. They're so focused on what they want to do that they don't have any room to consider how it affects anyone else.
We've really talked about all of those people at some point in the thread ... but they're very different people, and their behavior is the result of very different issues. And for the most part, rudeness has little to do with any of it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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