SCBA vs SCUBA

[lowwall]

But... the buddy system... comments? Are my concerns valid... I don't see how teams can be so ad hoc.

Your messages indicate quite a bit of underlying anxiety. Recreational diving really is safe and fun. By the very definition of recreational diving, aven the most catastrophic gear failure can be dealt with by simply slowly swimming to the surface. Wait until you see some of the people who have safely made hundreds of dives.

Back to your actual question. From what I've seen and read, it works like this. Most recreational diving, especially warm water, high viz diving, is extremely safe. Under these conditions, divers and the training agencies just pay lip service to the buddy concept, but everyone knows they are really not necessary, so instabuddies or group diving is readily accepted and causes no real problems.

As conditions become more difficult and for all tech diving, this casual approach is no longer acceptable. But even here there are a couple of alternatives. One approach is DIR which insists on real buddy training and only diving with buddies you can trust. Another approach can be seen here http://www.njscuba.net/gear/trng_07_buddy.html (the whole site is worth a look), that emphasizes self reliance, including fully redundant air sources (i.e. pony bottle or doubles with separate regs).

I just read Jacques Cousteau's first book and came across what was probably the start of the buddy system. They all dived solo originally, but at one point, one of his divers got hooked on a wreck in a way that made it extremely difficult to extricate himself, but he could have easily been freed by another diver. He survived, but from that point on they quit doing solo technical dives.

 

[harold3]

Your messages indicate quite a bit of underlying anxiety. Recreational diving really is safe and fun. By the very definition of recreational diving, aven the most catastrophic gear failure can be dealt with by simply slowly swimming to the surface. Wait until you see some of the people who have safely made hundreds of dives.

Back to your actual question. From what I've seen and read, it works like this. Most recreational diving, especially warm water, high viz diving, is extremely safe. Under these conditions, divers and the training agencies just pay lip service to the buddy concept, but everyone knows they are really not necessary, so instabuddies or group diving is readily accepted and causes no real problems.

As conditions become more difficult and for all tech diving, this casual approach is no longer acceptable. But even here there are a couple of alternatives. One approach is DIR which insists on real buddy training and only diving with buddies you can trust. Another approach can be seen here http://www.njscuba.net/gear/trng_07_buddy.html (the whole site is worth a look), that emphasizes self reliance, including fully redundant air sources (i.e. pony bottle or doubles with separate regs).

I just read Jacques Cousteau's first book and came across what was probably the start of the buddy system. They all dived solo originally, but at one point, one of his divers got hooked on a wreck in a way that made it extremely difficult to extricate himself, but he could have easily been freed by another diver. He survived, but from that point on they quit doing solo technical dives.

I don't think I'm filled with anxiety more than I'm filled with a want to get up and go paired up with the need to accumulate information in the absence of action. Which makes me compare experience in a similar but not equiv field to the information I'm aquiring, which confuses me a bit.

And while It may be true that Buddies are a lip service thing for open water my previous experience and training with a "dangerous" activity using buddy/teams tells me that an untrained/unreliable mate is worse than no buddy at all and that anything that should be done in pairs should be done in pairs.

Freshmeat/bluebuttons/virgins... Newbies (like me) are usually slowly broken in to a new team. Namely because we're too new from training and think we know it all and need older(usually) and wiser(sometimes) heads to ride herd on us, therefore you might see an odd team with two experienced operators and a pup trailing along behind them.

This isn't to say that team members should be blind followers, but a unit/team who's life depends on the other usually takes a good amount of time to form. My concern is instabuddies seems to nullify that whole subset of wisdom from previous similar experience and I'm trying to get my mind around that and see the differences.

I guess I'm in the "what to expect" mode. I can't learn everything all at once, wish I could but I really like to explore things with my intellect as much as I can. Sometimes this leads to over-analysis, but I've got quite a few chunks missing from various parts of my body that has taught me the hard way that over-analysis is better than under-analysis.

I'm hoping because of the textual nature of forum post this came through with the right tone. I'm not trying to sound belligerant I'm just trying to convey why I'm looking into things like I am.

 

[lowwall]

OK, I understand now.

The difference is that while diving may be thought of as a dangerous sport, the kind of diving you'll be starting out with really isn't. Remember, tens of thousands of people have safely done the Discover diving thing, which gets you in the water with around 2 hours of preparation. Even the full OW course could easily be completed in a few hours by someone sufficiently motivated and comfortable in water. In the very early days of diving, the sole extent of your training was a warning not to hold your breath.

Of course, there are types of diving that do require the types of training that you are accustomed to. We kind of sweep these into a big tent called tech diving. You could well be headed in that direction, but first you need to get your OW cert and some experience.

A final note, try not to be disappointed by the lack of rigor in your OW course. It really is the minimum required to get you to safely follow a DM around in warm water. I've taken the PADI Advanced Open Water and I didn't feel it was much better, so when you get to that point, you may want to research different agencies' AOW courses or at least talk directly to the instructor about whether he or she can give you want you want.

 

[mheaster]

Want your own tank, and can afford it, by all means buy one or two. LDS will LOVE you!

I have 6 (7 if you count a pony). My wife and two kids also dive and I also usually supply my Friend/Dive Instructor I assist with tanks for his class to offset some costs (I have DM and Equipment Insurance before someone FLAMES me!)

Just be aware tank ownership is not all it is cracked up to be. If you don't dive often they take up room. There is yearly visual inspection charges ($15 here plus refill) Hydro every 5 years ($35-40 plus another refill afterwards - an empty tank is a useless tank and also a corrosion/rust risk). If you never dive locally, you have to lug them whereever you go (35-50 lbs each in back of my Explorer is like another passenger I'm hauling to Florida!) My local quarry rents a full tank (+another fill) for $10 day or I can tank my own tank there and pay $5 fill!

New Open Water Students usually use air at higher rate than more experienced divers. Better air consumption rates come with the comfort, experience, relaxation associated with being more at ease in water. It is unlikely you will be the best or the worst "air hog" (your term, not mine) in your class. Whatever group you dive with, whenever or where ever, there will be those better and worse than yourself.

It is a wonderful day when you eventually that the stranger you are buddied up with is less experienced than you and you are the better, more experienced diver and they are looking to you as an example and marveling at why they are low on air and you still have 1500 psi. Just put forth the effort in your OW Class, STUDY the information and prepare yourself for fun, safe diving so you will be up to it when you are the good example/buddy to a less experienced "air hog"!

Enjoy your OW Class and quit stressing over a non-problem!

JUST my 2 cents worth

 

[mheaster]

Now ten to one when I begin diving, finding a regular dive buddy is going to be a huge problem. I'm sure it can be done, but unfortunatley I don't have many friends as interested in scuba enough to take classes with me. This means I'll have to enter this new community pretty much solo and at the mercy of random teaming up. (I'm not even considering going by myself if that's what that sounds like. especially not new and with no experience, I'll probably stick to group dives or some other structured environ until I find a regular buddy)​

My suggestion, even before you get certified, is to join a local Dive Club. I dove for 10 years before I did or got family members into diving. I used to go to a Dive Charter, book a dive boat trip and dive with whoever the boat DM buddied the darn single guy with. I got some good buddies (I probably irritated them) and some not so good buddies (payback I guess). They can also be good (NON-BIASED) source of info on gear, dive charters and dive sites. LDS will obviously automatically suggest their brand equip and their normal Dive Charters.

I'm now a member of a local dive club (VERY relaxed club that concentrates more on going diving than Robert's Rules of Order!).

I no longer have problems finding Dive Buddies, just don't have enough vacation or money to go on number of trips that are organized!