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Scuba pro R109 upgraded to balanced adjustable breathing effort issue

Discussion in 'Regulators' started by 73diver, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. 73diver

    73diver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    I have a 109 that I sent it to Scubapro to upgrade to a balanced adjustable. Upon using the regulator, I noticed that the breathing effort would change during the dive. It has never been what I would characterize as dangerous. In some cases with rapid or full inhalation the valve would open quite a bit and allow 'lots' of air to flow. At other times it felt as though the adjustment know was turned all the way in. After a year, I sent the regulator in for inspection/rebuild and mentioned the issue. After service the high air flow is gone but at times the resistance seems high and a couple of breaths later is is perfect. The technician reported that the breathing resistance was within specifications; but I suspect that the regulator was not malfunctioning in the high-resistance mode. Adjusting the knob does not seem to help much. I also have an S600 that breathes with comfortable effort whether the adjustment knob is in dive or pre-dive, regardless of inhalation rate. Any ideas what I should tell the technician next?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  2. redacted

    redacted Guest

    There may be a compatibility problem with an older lever and the new poppet. Try a new lever.
     
  3. halocline

    halocline Solo Diver

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    I think you should tell him goodbye and find another one. The 109 problem is likely the lever as awap mentioned. He certainly knows quite a bit about it. There are a couple of old threads about this if you want to search for them. There's a lot of good info in there. Basically, you could try a new lever and see if that solves the problem. But this tech obviously doesn't have any interest in actually solving the problem.

    Since the 109 is a really old model, I guess it's not surprising that a SP dealer tech has little experience or interest in making one work well. But the S600 is pretty much the flagship 2nd stage, or at least was until recently, so the fact that he can't tune one of those is a really bad sign.

    Another day, another story that makes me glad I do this stuff myself.
     
  4. USdiver1

    USdiver1 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Southwest Ohio
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    @73diver and other 109 to BA converts (awap and halocline) ,

    In your opinion, after the conversion to BA, has the perceived WOB improved over the unbalanced R109? I ask because I have a 109 that I like very much as is, but have heard that (lever compatibilities aside) a conversion to a balanced second stage is an overall improvement. I am happy with the current performance of my 109, but if there is marked improvement to be had from a conversion, I might be open to doing so. If the improvement is more on paper than in practice, well I'd just as soon not waste my money. Opinions?
     
  5. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Woof! ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: "La Grande Ile"
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    my guess is lever related too, but could also extend to the holes the feet are in. Zung had some interesting experiences with the holes wearing and resulting in issues.

    If you are getting "click-whoosh" (a slight delay) in the air delivery, then the lever is a priority to be dealt with. IIRC, the G250 lever is your friend here. Even with that, some work, some don't, and it can get quite maddening... but worth it in the end as it is one of the best all around regulators.

    Your tech is not really a tech, just a parts swapper.....
     
  6. rhwestfall

    rhwestfall Woof! ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: "La Grande Ile"
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    With a lighter spring due to the balancing, you are having less forces to overcome, so yes, it is "easier". Also, the seat life is "better"...
     
    USdiver1 likes this.
  7. redacted

    redacted Guest

    I find little to no difference in the breathing performance of an Adjustble, 109, and a Balanced Adjustable, 156; but the BA should be less affected by changes in IP. The lever compatibility problem may occur in either version when it is converted to the newer poppet (s-wing or duro poppet).
     
    USdiver1 likes this.
  8. halocline

    halocline Solo Diver

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    I also don't notice much difference between the unbalanced and balanced poppets initially, but I do find that the balanced poppets tend to hold a tune better, so the performance is a bit more consistent over a year or two.
     
    USdiver1 likes this.
  9. 73diver

    73diver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    rhwestfall, you nailed it exactly. When taking a slow steady breath the resistance will abruptly lessen with a 'whoosh' of air. I'll try a new demand lever. Thanks everyone.
     
  10. couv

    couv Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: 13th floor of the Ivory Tower
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    rhwestfall likes this.

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