oscar_2424
Contributor
does anybody had try the mk25/x650 reg?? am buying a new reg if you know anyother feel free to post it thanks for the help
scubapro
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oversea
Guest
I have the mk25/s600. They work great, however there are others out there that are as good for less money. Keep in mind how many shops locally service scubapro and if it is limited, are you completely satisfied with them? My situation is my regs orig. came from a local shop that I am not all that crazy about but I am stuck as they are the only ones around authorized for service. One lesson I have learned was the availablity of service and now regret buying my regs.
oversea
Guest
oh, from what I have heard, the x650 is an attempt to improve the d400 however most that have used the x650, like the d400 better. BTW, the d400 is discontinued
barc802
Contributor
I DM for a Scubapro exclusive lds and the owner will not sell the x650 to anyone even if they wanted to order it. His reason is that is has been redesigned too many times and is not the trusted work horse that the other sp models are. I have seen a lot of divers with sp regs but have never seen a x650. I personaly have mk25/s600, mk25/g250 and mk14/r330-(I think). I love them all.
Kamala
Guest
This may seem out there, but can an X650 owner comment on the general feel of the purge button. I was checking one out at the dive shop this past weekend and it didn't seem as responsive or easy to locate as say the S600 or S550. FWIW in rendering/composing an opinion, I ruled out the G250 because I don't like the little circle purge button, when I need to purge, I want something I can mash without working at it too much (cold water, thick gloves).
Also, DA Aquamaster (since I have a funny feeling you'll be weighing in on a Scubapro reg question), when you comment on cold water performance (i.e. MK25 v. MK16), how cold do you mean?
Also, DA Aquamaster (since I have a funny feeling you'll be weighing in on a Scubapro reg question), when you comment on cold water performance (i.e. MK25 v. MK16), how cold do you mean?
Kamala:
I don't know if you can find an easier purge to get to than the G250???? Been diving them for years in cold water with thick gloves never ever a problem. The G250 is the workhorse.
As far as the MK20 and 16 they both work fine up here in Alaska....
JustinW
Contributor
Ditto on all of that except I don't have a g250, but i do have an MK2+ R380 and the MK25/S600. Again, Ditto on everything below, except I don't DM for the same guy OffTheWall does. So I guess that makes for 2 shops that don't sell the X650 for the same reasons. We sell the heck out of S600's though. I don't see any reason to get either of the hopped up special metal versions of the S600, just get the basic version, they all function the same.
OffTheWall:
barc802
Contributor
Totaly agree, I have the same. :scubadiveJustinW:
I think Scubapro's premature discontinuation of the D400 and replacement with the not yet ready X650 in hurt the reputation of both SP and the X650, particularly given that it came on the heels of the freeze problem of the Mk 25/S600 combination.
However, I bought an X650 after the last round of upgrades and it has been totally reliable so I would not shy away from buying one on that count. While it is not in the same class as the D400 in terms of super smooth and easy breathing performance, it is equal to the S600 and even shares one of the same limitations.
Both the S600 and X650 in my experience display a very slight freeflow between breaths in very cold water (under 40 degrees). In my opinion this makes both the S600 and X650 a poor match for the TIS/AF equipped Mk 25 in very cold water (again under 40 degrees) as that slight freeflow over the course of a dive will increase the cooling of the first stage and create the potential for a first stage freeze up. In cold water with the X650 I found I had to increase the cracking effort with the adjustment knob to 2.0" of water to prevent the slight freeflow. (And in that case, you are going to get better inhalation efforts from an R190 that costs 1/3 as much.) Oddly however, the X650 does not display the problem in warm water.
The X650 also does not share the same coaxial exhaust valve/diaphragm design as the D400 so it does not have the same case design fault advantage as the D400. Where the D400 will offer the same very low breathing effort and freeflow free behavior in any attitude without any adjustment, the X650 performs more like a conventional second stage design like the S600 or G250 in that some adjustment is required to get peak performance in different positions and to avoid a freeflow out the exhaust valve in unusual attitudes.
I think the in water performance of the purge cover on the X650 is comparable to the S600 as a squeeze anywhere across the front of the cover will purge the reg.
But overall, I don't see the advantage in having an X650 as the angled diaphragm offers no real advantage when it is divorced from the coaxial exhaust valve. My guess is that the X650 is going to be relatively short lived design as it lacks both customer and dealer support after the two redesigns and due to it's lack of any substantial advantage over more established second stages. Scubapro could do a fairly significant redesign of the diaphragm, lever, exhaust valve and purge cover to incorporate a coaxial exhaust valve diaphragm design that would turn it in to a superb regulator, but I doubt they will. If they did, it would probably warrant a new name and would in fact benefit from one to distance itself from the X650 reputation. (X750 maybe?) The saving grace for X650 owners would be if the upgrade were retrofittable into the X650.
At present, my suggestion is to get the same or better performance by going with a G250 HP rather than an S600 or X650 and save a fair amount of money in the process.
With regard to first stages and very cold water, if you are diving in water colder than 40-45 degrees, a Mk 16 is a safer bet than a Mk 25, as the Mk 16 is very relaible in cold water. In warmer water, the Mk 25 is great.
Personally, I still prefer a Mk 20 with the older filled ambient chamber and SPEC boot for environmental protection. In my rather conservative opinion, Scubapro would benefit from introducing an optional SPEC cap and boot with an O2 compatible filler for the Mk 25 to meet the needs of divers who do dive in what SP considers to be "extreme conditions" rather than just ignoring problems divers are having in very cold water with the Mk 25. The sad part is that many of the strongest and most loyal customers Scubapro had were divers who dove in extreme conditions and consequently used SP equipment as it was utterly reliable.
However, I bought an X650 after the last round of upgrades and it has been totally reliable so I would not shy away from buying one on that count. While it is not in the same class as the D400 in terms of super smooth and easy breathing performance, it is equal to the S600 and even shares one of the same limitations.
Both the S600 and X650 in my experience display a very slight freeflow between breaths in very cold water (under 40 degrees). In my opinion this makes both the S600 and X650 a poor match for the TIS/AF equipped Mk 25 in very cold water (again under 40 degrees) as that slight freeflow over the course of a dive will increase the cooling of the first stage and create the potential for a first stage freeze up. In cold water with the X650 I found I had to increase the cracking effort with the adjustment knob to 2.0" of water to prevent the slight freeflow. (And in that case, you are going to get better inhalation efforts from an R190 that costs 1/3 as much.) Oddly however, the X650 does not display the problem in warm water.
The X650 also does not share the same coaxial exhaust valve/diaphragm design as the D400 so it does not have the same case design fault advantage as the D400. Where the D400 will offer the same very low breathing effort and freeflow free behavior in any attitude without any adjustment, the X650 performs more like a conventional second stage design like the S600 or G250 in that some adjustment is required to get peak performance in different positions and to avoid a freeflow out the exhaust valve in unusual attitudes.
I think the in water performance of the purge cover on the X650 is comparable to the S600 as a squeeze anywhere across the front of the cover will purge the reg.
But overall, I don't see the advantage in having an X650 as the angled diaphragm offers no real advantage when it is divorced from the coaxial exhaust valve. My guess is that the X650 is going to be relatively short lived design as it lacks both customer and dealer support after the two redesigns and due to it's lack of any substantial advantage over more established second stages. Scubapro could do a fairly significant redesign of the diaphragm, lever, exhaust valve and purge cover to incorporate a coaxial exhaust valve diaphragm design that would turn it in to a superb regulator, but I doubt they will. If they did, it would probably warrant a new name and would in fact benefit from one to distance itself from the X650 reputation. (X750 maybe?) The saving grace for X650 owners would be if the upgrade were retrofittable into the X650.
At present, my suggestion is to get the same or better performance by going with a G250 HP rather than an S600 or X650 and save a fair amount of money in the process.
With regard to first stages and very cold water, if you are diving in water colder than 40-45 degrees, a Mk 16 is a safer bet than a Mk 25, as the Mk 16 is very relaible in cold water. In warmer water, the Mk 25 is great.
Personally, I still prefer a Mk 20 with the older filled ambient chamber and SPEC boot for environmental protection. In my rather conservative opinion, Scubapro would benefit from introducing an optional SPEC cap and boot with an O2 compatible filler for the Mk 25 to meet the needs of divers who do dive in what SP considers to be "extreme conditions" rather than just ignoring problems divers are having in very cold water with the Mk 25. The sad part is that many of the strongest and most loyal customers Scubapro had were divers who dove in extreme conditions and consequently used SP equipment as it was utterly reliable.
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