Shouldn't DSMB be required as part of training?

[Redshift]

Can we clear up that an smb and dsmb is the same thing. What we are really discussing is when it's deployed. PADI requires either or.

The "when it's deployed" makes all the difference. An smb is much easier to use. A dsmb requires better buoyancy control, team skills especially if mid-water, coordination... and involves more risk.

DSMB is part of CMAS 2 (in Portugal, at least) and BSAC training.

 

[ffdiver]

It is in my opinion that PADI is emphasizing SMB/DSMB skill for retrieval and "signaling" your boat purposes. Not just to notify other boats you are in the water. I think the skill would have been called float tow or dive flag tow skill.

At least thats the impression I got through the member forum when the PADI reps explained why its now a required skill.

And I don't call a dive flag or float an SMB. those two different things.

---------- Post added May 7th, 2015 at 04:17 PM ----------

Tbone, I generally enjoy your posts, but this time you are just making things up as you go along.

Dive float/flag
SMB/DSMB/SAFETY SAUSAGE

Two different things. One is a float and the other three are SMBs.

An SMB becomes a DSMB if you deploy it underwater. But who cares what it's called. I far as I know that's a PADI term they made up. It's an SMB. A safety sausage is an SMB. A SMB with an OPV is an SMB. A flag on top of an inflatable ball or the like is a float.

You can tow a float and flag or an SMB during your dive. Or you can deploy an SMB during your dive.

It's not a hard skill. For once on Scubaboard can we not make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[rivers]

SMB is different than DSMB, when did it go away from a distinctive specialty or something in the deep diver course? I can accept SMB use, but I would love to watch the hilarity that will ensue when the vast majority of PADI OW instructors I know try to shoot a DSMB. Using an SMB is easy as cake, and that's an important skill because it's the law in quite a few states in this country, but unless you can copy the standard that says where DSMB use is taught, I'm skeptical.

I would literally pay the price of an OW course to go watch a new PADI Instructor try to demonstrate DSMB deployment and watch them try to get their students to do it, it would be worth that much. I call complete and utter bullsh!t. Dive flag use is 100% different from this and unless you can post the standard where it says DSMB use is required, I won't believe it.

PADI Open Water skill requirement:

• Inflatable Signal Tube Use — Deploy an inflatable signal tube at the surface, or deploy a delayed surface marker buoy (DSMB) from underwater.

That is the last standard I saw, I have only ever seen surface tubes, have never seen an instructor actually teach the DSMB. Not saying it doesn't happen Jim is proof, but deploying one at the surface rather defeats the point in my opinion.

I've DMed a couple of the new PADI OW course. We had them deply DSMBs from depth (about 6m).

 

[tbone1004]

I'll agree it's not a hard skill, but I don't think it's one that can be done in the PADI courses taught to their bare minimums. I'll respectfully disagree on the dive float vs. flag vs smb's, but that is a semantics and may be a regional difference of opinion.... Also, not just PADI, they're all just as guilty. That said, kudo's to PADI for recognizing that showing use of a safety sausage is important at that level, especially for ocean diving.

 

[ffdiver]

But it is a skill taught to their bare minimums. And if you follow PADI Bare minimums it's not a terrible course. What you have an issue with is instructors/students not meeting the standards.

 

[rivers]

OK...Just what about deployment skills is so essential to the "survival probability" of a recreational diver?

1. You are NOT supposed to be diving in a shipping channel, and you are supposed to be coming up where your dive boat can be protecting you from other boats.
2. What about the SMB provides important value to you?

DSMB use is essential on the south coast of the UK. There is diving to be had in the English channel, which is a major shipping channel. On most dives, you do not come back to the shot line and ascend. You deploy your blob from somewhere (either just as you leave the wreck if shallower than 30m) or from somewhere between 21 and 30 if your dive is between 35 and 45m, and then you ascend on it. The dive boat then picks you up after you surface. Deeper dives in the channel may have different protocols, but for the majority of south coast wreck diving, this is the drill

 

[Redshift]

DSMB use is essential on the south coast of the UK. You deploy your blob from somewhere (either just as you leave the wreck if shallower than 30m) or from somewhere between 21 and 30 if your dive is between 35 and 45m, and then you ascend on it.

And for the second dive, since there will be current, the DSMB is deployed shortly after starting the dive (or towed right from the start) so that the boat can follow the divers.

 

[Crowley]

Have to agree and disagree with some of the above.

Firstly - I think DSMBs are an essential piece of safety equipment and their deployment is invaluable training - however I will come to that in a moment.

For those who say they are unnecessary, I disagree. If you are diving anywhere there is boat traffic then it's essential that a DSMB is deployed by at least one member of a dive team prior to ascent. The bulk of recreational diving is carried out in tropical resort based environments where even diving from shore might mean the presence of speedboats, parasailing boats, glass bottom boats, other dive boats, snorkelling boats, jetskis, windsurfers, tubby russian snorkellers, and so on.

Deploying from 1 metre is not sufficient. There are plenty of dive boats with significantly deeper drafts where being underwater by one or even two metres when that boat passes overhead will mean an unpleasant head/propeller interaction.

Carrying an SMB / float for the duration of a dive is, in many locations, not just physically impossible but a distinct liability. The currents in my last place of work near Bali were so weird that they could be raging at the surface and absolutely nothing at depth - the person carrying the surface marker would have been swept out into the blue in short order.After deploying my DSMB, I regulalry had to either hook into the reef or get everybody in the group to hold on to me so we didn't get separated because I couldn't fight the current to stay with them.

It is task loading to some extent, and I think that most recreational agencies will count on the fact that most of their divers will be diving with a divemaster or instructor as a guide, and who is capable of deploying an SMB on their behalf, however I also think that it should be taught in some fashion - and it is indeed a requirement of the 2014 revised PADI OW course to do so - at some point. In an area with heavy surface traffic, I'd rather have somebody screw up a surface marker deployment with the inherent risk of a rapid ascent, as opposed to them safely ascending into 500 brake horsepower of propeller mayhem.

Whoever said that they find it hilarious watching the vast majority of PADI instructors trying to deploy a DSMB has clearly never seen many PADI instructors in action - after 9 years of full time diving and seeing thousands of instructors from all agencies deploy DSMBs, I can assure you that the vast majority of instructors from all agencies combined can, indeed, safely deploy a D/SMB.

Let's get off the tired agency bashing thing. As far as I am aware, deployment of a surface marker is not a requirement for SSI programs, but neither was it by PADI until 2014. I am sure that in time, SSI and other agencies will eventually follow suit. The diving world changes. There are more divers, therefore there are more boats, therefore there is more need for deploying a surface marker.

Even if it's not part of a course, learning dive techniques does not stop at the door of the dive centre. There's no reason an inexperienced diver who wants to learn can't ask their instructor/dm/guide/more experienced buddy how to deploy an DSMB. One would hope that, time and circumstance permitting, any diver who can would assist those who cannot.

Cheers

C.

 

[Z Gear]

I don't think that anyone denies that DSMB are a useful tool. Continuing education is essential in diver development, obviously additional skills are added to a diver's toolbox. I agree with the others that most new divers would be too over tasked to add deploying a DSMB from 20 feet, I see this adding too many uncontrollable ascents during OW classes if this were implemented.

If that is the case why has PADI succesfully implemented this as part of the training program, and has not deemed it to difficult for new divers to learn?

 

[fishb0y]

I guess that makes them better than me. That is a risk I don't find acceptable for an OW class.