So what should have happened?

[markrodg]

Ok stick with me, I need to know what should have happened here. While in the Florida Keys, I dove with a small group from a local dive shop. None of whom had I ever met before. We dove on a wreck for our first morning dive down to about 100 feet. We then moved to our next destination, this one near several fishing boats. One of the boats radioed our captain that they were chumming the water. This was met with excitement by the DM as it provided a possible opportunity for us to see "larger fish".

After a surprisingly short 25 minute SIT, the DM took us to down to our next destination at about 70 feet. Not surprisingly, on the way up from the second dive my ultra conservative Suunta Cobra had me take an extra long safety stop.

Since this was a drift dive, the extra long stop caused me to drift past the boat by about 200 yards. As everyone else surfaced, I was stuck waiting on my computer and I passed them by. The DM and I drifted essentially right next to the boat that had radioed that they were chumming the water. Once on the surface, the DM took off towards our boat and I, being somewhat less of a strong swimmer, had a surface swim back to the boat. After about a 10 minute swim against the current, I eventually reached the line and the other divers on the boat pulled me in.

Once back in the boat, the DM told me he was worried about the possibility of sharks in the water and wanted to get back to the boat as fast as he could.

So my question is, if anyone was worried about sharks in the water, then why didn't the dive boat come pick me up? Why didn't the DM stick with me during my swim back to the boat? And finally, since I'm told that sharks are attracted to spashing noises at the surface, should I have gone down to 10 feet or so and navigated my way back to the boat with no buddy in the water?

I definitely consider myself a new diver, having only done this for the past 18 months. All of my dives thus far have been in the Caribbean but this was the first time I dived with a shop in the Keys.

 

[gcbryan]

You should have not gone on the second dive if you weren't comfortable with the 25 minute surface interval. The DM should have stayed with you. I don't know why they didn't pick you up. Were they anchored or was it a live boat?

It's better to have your own dive buddy, to tell the DM that you aren't ready to get back in the water, and to not do anything that doesn't seem right just because the DM is doing it.

I'd probably also use a different charter next time as well.

 

[SDAnderson]

What should have happened? That isn't nearly as important as what needs to happen...

• You need to be more careful about the charters you pick. Just because they have a boat doesn't mean you should get on it.
• You need to learn not to do dives you aren't comfortable with. You saw a bunch of clues: short SI, chum in the water, idiot DM - yet you still got in the water.

It sounds like the Capt and the DM made a bunch of thoughtless mistakes. So did you. Learn and grow, Padawan...

 

[vladimir]

Ok stick with me, I need to know what should have happened here. While in the Florida Keys, I dove with a small group from a local dive shop. None of whom had I ever met before. We dove on a wreck for our first morning dive down to about 100 feet. We then moved to our next destination, this one near several fishing boats. One of the boats radioed our captain that they were chumming the water. This was met with excitement by the DM as it provided a possible opportunity for us to see "larger fish".

After a surprisingly short 25 minute SIT, the DM took us to down to our next destination at about 70 feet. Not surprisingly, on the way up from the second dive my ultra conservative Suunta Cobra had me take an extra long safety stop.

Since this was a drift dive, the extra long stop caused me to drift past the boat by about 200 yards. As everyone else surfaced, I was stuck waiting on my computer and I passed them by. The DM and I drifted essentially right next to the boat that had radioed that they were chumming the water. Once on the surface, the DM took off towards our boat and I, being somewhat less of a strong swimmer, had a surface swim back to the boat. After about a 10 minute swim against the current, I eventually reached the line and the other divers on the boat pulled me in.

Once back in the boat, the DM told me he was worried about the possibility of sharks in the water and wanted to get back to the boat as fast as he could.

Why didn't the DM stick with me during my swim back to the boat?

I think he should have, if he was your buddy. It doesn't sound like you had an actual buddy though.

And finally, since I'm told that sharks are attracted to spashing noises at the surface, should I have gone down to 10 feet or so and navigated my way back to the boat with no buddy in the water?

I never swim on the surface. You are less vulnerable to boat traffic--and probably shark attack too--swimming at 10 to 15 feet, and you don't have to deal with surface chop.

I don't think your second dive was adequately planned. If you don't have any say in the surface interval, you can still choose to turn the dive sooner, perhaps dive shallower, or skip the second dive. You should know before you splash if you are going to exceed your NDL and plan the ascent with your buddy accordingly.

 

[PatW]

What should have happened? That isn't nearly as important as what needs to happen...

• You need to be more careful about the charters you pick. Just because they have a boat doesn't mean you should get on it.
• You need to learn not to do dives you aren't comfortable with. You saw a bunch of clues: short SI, chum in the water, idiot DM - yet you still got in the water.

It sounds like the Capt and the DM made a bunch of thoughtless mistakes. So did you. Learn and grow, Padawan...

Isn't some of that criticism unmerited? The diver did know about the short surface interval. He could have expressed his doubts about it before the dive even started. He does know about the chum, but he does not have reason to believe he will be close to it. One could reasonably assume that an experienced and capable DM would keep the divers well clear of the chum area. I do not see how he could have known that the DM was an "idiot" until the DM's actions indicated it. Hindsight has 20/20 vision. After an adverse outcome, it is easy to see what what wrong. The important question here is how much could the diver have anticipated and avoided?

The only problem here that was obvious before the event was the short surface interval.

 

[stefo2]

The short surface interval aside, there is one other thing that doesn't make sense. If the boat was anchored, why couldn't you decompress on the anchor line? And if it wasn't anchored, why didn't they come to pick you up instead of letting you swim against the current for ten minutes?

You say it was a drift dive, so I assume the boat was actually following the divers. After picking up the first lot - you say it was a small group, so it can't have taken that long - the boat should have continued to follow the divers still in the water. I don't know much longer your computer "made" you wait, but ideally the boat would have already been close to you when you surfaced.

So to come back to your questions, what should have happened, is this, imo:

1. The DM shouldn't have suggested diving after such a short SI.
2. You should have refused doing the dive after such a short SI.

In both cases the dive wouldn't have happened as it happened.

3. The DM should have stayed with you after surfacing.
4. The boat should have picked both of you up.

 

[TSandM]

I'm with stefo2 -- if the boat was anchored, why didn't you guys catch the anchor line on the way up? And if it wasn't, the only reason I can think of for them not coming to get you was that they were loading divers who HAD gotten back to the boat.

Did the DM drift with you because you were the last one in the water, or because you two were buddied up? If the latter, I would guess that, having gotten you to the surface, he felt his responsibility for you was somewhat lessened or gone (whether this is true or not is a matter for argument).

I do think the conduct of the second dive was largely your responsibility -- to decide whether to do a 70foot dive so soon (do you have a planning function on your computer? You could have used that to know what your bottom time at 70 feet was going to be, and you could have told the guide about it before you went down); to decide to stay in the water long enough to incur decompression (which is what your "extended safety stop" is -- and without training, we are supposed to stay out of deco); and to drift, if there was an anchor line available.

It always strikes me, any time someone posts of a dive that went sideways, how much of what went wrong was amenable to avoidance by good PRE-DIVE planning and communication. Here, working out NDLs for the second dive ahead of time, communicating with the guide about them, being clear about whether you had a buddy, and being clear about diver retrieval procedures for the boat would have avoided a lot of the issues.

 

[leapfrog]

Mark...Hi!

You are a relatively new diver, first post on SB and you are already geting flak! Your boat captain was told before the second dive that fishing boats were chumming the water but the DM (presumably the "lead" diver) decided to go ahead with the dive and you followed...:shocked2: Did all the other divers on the boat follow? 25 minute SI means that in reality you had hardly finished Dive 1 when the boat motored over to the chumming area to do Dive 2. :shocked2:

I am interpreting that as it was a drift dive, your boat was not anchored. On non anchored drift dives the boat picks up the divers. End of story on that one! To answer your question, I DON'T KNOW WHY THE BOAT DID NOT COME TO PICK YOU UP. Did you ask the Captain?What explanation did he give?

On the question of the DM sticking with you and you coming back on your own under the surface, I am assuming you have been trained to dive with a buddy at all times? If you didn't have another buddy, then the DM was effectively your buddy and should have stayed with you and providing you both had a minimal amount of air you could have come back to the boat together at a minimal depth.

However you mentioned that it was a drift dive (there was current) and you had already missed the line from the boat. In those circumstances, to submerge again could have been more reckless than staying on the surface where you could be seen.

I would not have done the second dive due to both the almost zilch SI and the chumming. On the subject of drift dives, have you had specific training in drift diving (eg AOWD Drift Dive "adventure" or other)? Do you carry and know how to deploy and use an SMB including making your safety stop on it?

It seems to me that you allowed yourself to be "led on" by people who run a reckless outfit. Well you won't be going back there.

Mark, thanks for posting. I look forward to hearing more from you...Welcome to the Board!

 

[markrodg]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for chiming in.

You are a relatively new diver, first post on SB and you are already geting flak!

I don't feel I'm getting flack here. I'm sure my actions were as much to blame as anyone elses and what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger in my opinion so the criticisim is both warranted and accepted.

You say it was a drift dive, so I assume the boat was actually following the divers.

Just to be clear, the boat was indeed anchored so I guess this wasn't as much a "drift dive" as it was a dive with current.

Did all the other divers on the boat follow? 25 minute SI means that in reality you had hardly finished Dive 1 when the boat motored over to the chumming area to do Dive 2.

I was actually the only one that piped up and mentioned that the 25 minute SIT was very short. The DM and captain had a short conversation amongst themselves and determined that 25 minutes was ample time. I trusted their judgement and decided to go with it. Obviously this was my mistake and one that I will learn from.

To answer your question, I DON'T KNOW WHY THE BOAT DID NOT COME TO PICK YOU UP. Did you ask the Captain?What explanation did he give?

Not knowing what the "protocol" is, I did not ask why I was not picked up. As you mentioned, I am relatively new and am still learning what should and shouldn't occur.

I would not have done the second dive due to both the almost zilch SI and the chumming. On the subject of drift dives, have you had specific training in drift diving (eg AOWD Drift Dive "adventure" or other)? Do you carry and know how to deploy and use an SMB including making your safety stop on it?

I trusted that the captain wouldn't put the divers in danger even though my gut feeling was "this is odd". The DM's comment about maybe seeing some big fish also gave me mixed feelings. Again, I'm definitely hearing that it's best to trust my instinct when it comes to safety. This was my first time diving without a personal friend as my buddy so I was defintely putting some trust in people that I had none to start with. All of the divers were given an SMB but I've never had formal training in the use of it during safety stops.

Again, I thank all of you at the very least for confirming that this was not a normal incident. I do think that I am to blame for not trusting my instincts and thinking clearly. I am in charge of my own safety and cannot take it for granted that a DM will be there to assist me. I believe it will be better in the future to dive with a personal buddy rather than rely on someone I do not know, at least until I can be comfortable with my surroundings and have quite a few more dives under my belt.

Regarding the use of an SMB, since I have not had the opportunity to use one, and knowing that they are highly recommended, I will definitely be practicing the deployment and safety stop using one before I do another dive. Is this something I can practice with an instructor at my next destination on a shore dive?

Again, thank you all for chiming in. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[robint]

We did a week of diving in the Keys back in 2003
(using 2 different dive ops) and found that every day our SI was less than an hour. Since we also use Suunto computers we had the added penalty you described. Our second dives were all very shallow though so we went ahead and got in, probably 30-40' depth, but the dives were shorter than they could have been with an adequate SI. We were told that this is common for the Keys as all the dives tend to be shallow. BTW - We did do the Spiegel Grove and Duane, both deep, and those days we had a full hour SI.

My comments are:
1. next time make sure you have a dive buddy and that you plan your dive, don't rely on a DM to tell you when to come up or leave you stranded.
2. if you don't think the SI is long enough for the dive plan, don't do the dive.
3. don't dive around fishing boats that are chumming. Yes, it can bring in fish, but I am more concerned about fishing lines and crazy fisherMEN who might just start up their engines and drive over top of the divers as they surface.