Solo Cave Diving

[MalibuJerry]

I think the accident statistics are clear on this. Solo cave is a very high risk dive. You may choose that risk, but you should know how high it is. Some of the very best cave divers in the world never came back from solo dives. I would not advocate one way or another, but it is beyond my tolerance for risk.

 

[Superlyte27]

I think the accident statistics are clear on this. Solo cave is a very high risk dive. You may choose that risk, but you should know how high it is. Some of the very best cave divers in the world never came back from solo dives. I would not advocate one way or another, but it is beyond my tolerance for risk.

Not sure where you got your data, but accident analysis IS pretty clear. People die in caves for 1 of 5 reasons. And having a buddy or not having a buddy is NOT one of the 5 reasons.

 

[kensuf]

A dozen years ago I was apprenticing to become a cave instructor with one of the oldest cave agencies around. My mentor died on a solo dive before I finished. My wife made me quit cave diving after that accident even though I had over 500 cave dives under my belt at the time, and had sat on several committees for some of the organizations.

For years the depth part of accident analysis was really about deep water blackout, but in 1995 or 1996 I analyzed all of the fatalities and found there were a large number of deaths of trained and experienced cave divers in the 150 foot range (in places like Hornsby) and the evidence was pretty clear that stupid mistakes were happening when narcosis made you a little less sharp, and the compounding effect of multiple little things caused by fuzzy brain syndrome led to some fatal outcomes. When I published the data and a subsequent article suggesting an END of 130' or shallower, there was a pretty serious backlash from people about personal preference, and a pretty serious ****storm ensued. But I think most people would see the wisdom of shallower ENDs now (and hey, I will admit I used to regularly do dives in the Lockwood tunnel or Alachua on air).

If politics were not in the way of it, clear heads would have prevailed and solo diving would be universally accepted as a legitimate part of accident analysis. My cavern->cave instructor has been teaching and preaching that since at least 1993 when I took his cavern course, and some agencies include it in their training (NAUI). That doesn't mean you will die solo cave diving, it just means you need to understand several accomplished and experienced cave divers have died solo cave diving and you need to understand that it is an activity filled with risk.

Let me put it in perspective: more trained cave divers have died solo diving than with less than the requisite number of backup lights. Yet lights are still considered an integral part of accident analysis while solo diving is ignored.

Is it worth the risk, only you can decide that for you. But several very accomplished and well known cave divers died solo diving. Maybe a buddy would have helped them, maybe that buddy would have just given them that sanity check not to push their gas too much, or maybe not to try and squeeze through that restriction, or what not.

 

[Superlyte27]

A dozen years ago I was apprenticing to become a cave instructor with one of the oldest cave agencies around. My mentor died on a solo dive before I finished. My wife made me quit cave diving after that accident even though I had over 500 cave dives under my belt at the time, and had sat on several committees for some of the organizations.

For years the depth part of accident analysis was really about deep water blackout, but in 1995 or 1996 I analyzed all of the fatalities and found there were a large number of deaths of trained and experienced cave divers in the 150 foot range (in places like Hornsby) and the evidence was pretty clear that stupid mistakes were happening when narcosis made you a little less sharp, and the compounding effect of multiple little things caused by fuzzy brain syndrome led to some fatal outcomes. When I published the data and a subsequent article suggesting an END of 130' or shallower, there was a pretty serious backlash from people about personal preference, and a pretty serious ****storm ensued. But I think most people would see the wisdom of shallower ENDs now (and hey, I will admit I used to regularly do dives in the Lockwood tunnel or Alachua on air).

If politics were not in the way of it, clear heads would have prevailed and solo diving would be universally accepted as a legitimate part of accident analysis. My cavern->cave instructor has been teaching and preaching that since at least 1993 when I took his cavern course, and some agencies include it in their training (NAUI). That doesn't mean you will die solo cave diving, it just means you need to understand several accomplished and experienced cave divers have died solo cave diving and you need to understand that it is an activity filled with risk.

Let me put it in perspective: more trained cave divers have died solo diving than with less than the requisite number of backup lights. Yet lights are still considered an integral part of accident analysis while solo diving is ignored.

Is it worth the risk, only you can decide that for you. But several very accomplished and well known cave divers died solo diving. Maybe a buddy would have helped them, maybe that buddy would have just given them that sanity check not to push their gas too much, or maybe not to try and squeeze through that restriction, or what not.

Those people who happened to die while solo diving, actually died because one of the other 5 reasons listed in Sheck Exley's accident analysis. Training, Line, Air, Depth, Lights, whichever. The fact that they were solo was just coincidence. A buddy may or may not have saved them, but following their training and not exceeding it. Properly managing their gas, Not exceeding the depth for which they were trained or for which they carried gas for, having sufficient lights, and having a continuous guideline to the surface would have ensured their survival regardless of buddy. Unless of course your name was Parker Turner.

---------- Post added November 10th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ----------

Let me put it in perspective: more trained cave divers have died solo diving than with less than the requisite number of backup lights. Yet lights are still considered an integral part of accident analysis while solo diving is ignored.

That may or may not be true. I'd like to see where you collected your data to verify it. But even if it were true, lets be clear.... The diver being solo isn't what killed him. Breaking one of the 5 rules of cave diving is what killed them.

---------- Post added November 10th, 2013 at 11:18 AM ----------

Is it worth the risk, only you can decide that for you. But several very accomplished and well known cave divers died solo diving. Maybe a buddy would have helped them, maybe that buddy would have just given them that sanity check not to push their gas too much, or maybe not to try and squeeze through that restriction, or what not.

So, in this example, diving solo isn't what really killed him. Diving beyond his gas limits or completely ignoring his training is what killed him.
I interpret this paragraph as you saying that our buddy might be able to impart common sense on us... I don't certify students who lack common sense. So we're back to lack of training.

 

[TSandM]

It's arguable and probably can't be proven . . . but if diving with a buddy PREVENTS the breaking of one of the other 5 rules, wouldn't that be considered a significant step toward safety? If Steve Berman had had a buddy on his last dive, who said, "Hey, I've hit thirds, let's get OUT of here," might he be with us? If you had a powerful way to ensure following the rules, wouldn't that be worthwhile?

 

[Superlyte27]

I think placing dependence on your buddy for survival is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

If you had a powerful way to ensure following the rules, wouldn't that be worthwhile?

That really scares the heck out of me. That is going on right now with the ACA. Not to turn this to a political rant, but legislating compliance is a place I don't want to go. Then you get into what rules to set, who enforces them, how to "PAY" for all of this. I do understand you are referencing a buddy, but that in itself could create its own set of issues, mentally and financially.

This is the real world. I and only I am responsible for my actions. Until I am a solid SOLO Diver I cannot be a solid BUDDY Diver. If I cannot, plan for and, work out each and every non-health related problem on my own, then there is a weak link.

In every team there will be a dominant and a submissive diver. With very few exceptions one will always be more skilled and mentally stronger than the other. When the problem happens to the Alpha person, is the Submissive (or less skilled and experienced) team member going to be reliable to effect a rescue? This is what Mentoring is about. A stronger and more experienced diver passing their skills and experiences to a less skilled and experienced diver.

In a perfect world hypothetical fixes, that make everything work as it should, is wonderful. The world is Dynamic in nature with everything moving and changing all of the time. I will be responsible for myself and will not rely on anyone else.

Having said that, when I dive with someone I keep an eye on them and expect the same. I do not, however, assign them responsibility for my skill level, choices or safety. Most of my cave dives, heck, most of my dives, (almost 20 years) have been solo and I prefer it that way. This is my escape and time to "decompress" from life and the world outside.

As I said, Until You Are A Solid Solo Diver You Cannot Be A Solid Buddy Diver. Mark

 

[kensuf]

---------- Post added November 10th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ----------



That may or may not be true. I'd like to see where you collected your data to verify it. But even if it were true, lets be clear.... The diver being solo isn't what killed him. Breaking one of the 5 rules of cave diving is what killed them.

Well, I actually used to have the entire accident analysis database on my computer for the NACD until I gave up the position of chair of the accident analysis committee.

So, in this example, diving solo isn't what really killed him. Diving beyond his gas limits or completely ignoring his training is what killed him.
I interpret this paragraph as you saying that our buddy might be able to impart common sense on us... I don't certify students who lack common sense. So we're back to lack of training.

Coming from the same guy that started a thread about missing gap reels that had been left in a system for three weeks, any comments about common sense are amusing.

To say that the two people I was thinking of when I wrote my comments about solo diving lacked training is quite rich.

Look, I don't care if you dive solo or not. I do it every once in a blue moon myself. I also regularly skip dropping a reel into devils ear because I usually exit the eye. BUT I acknowledge and accept the risks for those practices when I do them and take steps to mitigate those risks. To not teach that there are risks involved in the practice of solo diving is stupid.

 

[TSandM]

Who said anything about legislating things? Or being "dependent" on someone else? There are a lot of things I can by myself, but having someone else to assist me can make matters considerably easier. Does that mean I'm "dependent" on the other person?

I look at solo cave diving the way GUE looks at CCR and sidemount. It's a technique to be applied to certain circumstances where the risks of diving WITH a buddy outweight the risks of doing without. Those dives represent a very small fraction of the cave diving that is out there to be done. For dives where it is feasible, better risk mitigation ought to be employed.

Nobody ought to be diving in a cave if they are dependent on someone else to execute the dive safely. There's a difference between dependence and insurance. I like insurance.

 

[Superlyte27]

Really? That's your defense of a position? An old thread on cdf about reels? Hilarious.
The funny part is, everyone knows reels get left in caves. There was a reel in Peacock for over a year. There are reels in Ginnie for months at a time. Oh, and as was stated in the thread months ago... I intended to get the reels the following day, but was unable to do so for several reasons.

If we're going to bring up common sense, maybe we should leave out the NACD all together. LOL
For the record, I don't solo dive often. I don't teach my students that they should do it. I do teach that two brains are better than one. But, I also teach that you can't count on ANYONE to get your butt out of the sling except you. The days of having a single buddy that you've been diving with almost exclusively for a decade are gone. People might have 3 or 4 different buddies in a single week. You can't count on this new buddy to save you because unless you've seen the crap hit the fan and his response to it, you just can't know how he'll be able to help or if he'll bolt.