Solo Diving: PADI Worldwide's Position

[Teamcasa]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

moved to solo divers

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[Cave Bum]

This thread certainly does not belong in the basic discussion area - also, while it is here, please remember this is a 'flame free zone'.

Mods, please move to the appropriate forum......not sure what that is....doesn't really even belong in the solo forum.....hrm....

I most certainly think it belongs here. It is a discussion of "is the buddy system appropriate to basic suuba diving...".

 

[jridg]

Cave Bum,

I would respectfully disagree.

I think the buddy system is appropriate to basic scuba diving - without a doubt. The OP posted PADI's position on SOLO diving, which is basically an argument for the buddy system. While the buddy system and it's benefits are definitely the focus of the position, it's still a position on diving solo.

As a PADI DM, I do sometimes solo. I fully understand the additional risks and equipment requirements (imposed by me). I feel totally comfortable putting that out there. Could it reach up and 'bite' me - of course it could - just like anything else with or without a buddy.

Bottom line is that I feel that the arguments for/against solo diving are more in the arena of advanced diving discussions than basic diving discussions. That's my main point.

 

[shoredivr]

I think it's highly unlikely that two random divers would be paired up together by a dive shop to go out diving with only themselves;

Location, location, location

Hi Crowley, it's not unusual here in the Great Lakes or St Lawrence River.

No divemasters on charter boats. I didn't see any divemasters out on Vancouver Island boats, nor Catalina dive boats either. Just remembered a Florida Keys 6-pack, no divemaster there either.

If you show up by yourself, you get an insta-buddy (or buddies). I've done many "walk-on" charters, showing up by myself. Some insta-buddies are great, others make me glad for my solo and rescue training *edit* and redundant gear. YMMV




*edit* I think the OP just wants to get a higher post count.

 

[Cave Bum]

Cave Bum,

I would respectfully disagree.

I think the buddy system is appropriate to basic scuba diving - without a doubt. The OP posted PADI's position on SOLO diving, which is basically an argument for the buddy system. While the buddy system and it's benefits are definitely the focus of the position, it's still a position on diving solo.

jridg,

I agree with you, the buddy system is appropriate to basic scuba diving. As I said in my post:

I teach ... and specify that it is a form of technical diving and requires training, gear, preparation and practice.

What I disagree with is our current method of teaching the buddy system, that the first response to a problem should be to run to your buddy for help and then pop to the surface.

I think we should move the focus of the training to teaching more self-reliance and self-rescue and to stress fixing underwater problems underwater.

That's where I think the PADI philosophy lets new divers down, by focusing on the buddy being the primary mode of rescue.

If my short answer to your suggestion to move the thread lead you to think I was saying differently, I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

 

[jridg]

Not to hijack the thread as a PADI vs. everyone else thing (again) - having been PADI most of my diving life - and having been exposed to NAUI for a few years as well, I do feel that PADI needs to re-look at how they teach basic scuba.

Cave Bum - you hit it on the head with that last one - self-sufficient/self-rescue/problem solving underwater - are all things we need to learn basically on our own with the current system.

 

[Atomic_Diver]

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have posted this article at least 4 times before here on SB. So yeah it is nothing new. I do disagree with moving it out of the basic forum. How many of us have taken students for checkouts and had them see the dreaded SOLO DIVER! Oh My! I go discuss solo diving in my OW classes just because of this.

I go over the gear that many of us use, redundancy, the risks, and why it is NOT for them. Showing a few photos of solo divers with less than great outcomes and now with the number of deaths this year so far helps to reinforce good buddy skills and why they should concentrate on that. To not at least discuss it is doing new divers a disservice. Because they will indeed see others doing it. If they do not have the info beforehand they may decide to just give it a try. And why not? How many are being trained in the "monkey see, monkey do " manner as it is.

No real explanations, they nearly teach themselves the academics, and then hop in the pool for a couple hours and bingo! Diver( more like underwater tourist really but)! I feel I owe it to my students to prepare them for what they will encounter in the real world. And hopefully get them to think about imitating things they may see but really don't understand before attempting something that will get them hurt or killed.

 

[DaleC]

The buddy system in use today for scuba diving came from a decades old water safety concept found in swimming and lifeguard training. It was adopted because it applied to diving and because it made good safety sense.

Just like not swimming for an hour after eating I suppose.

Early support of buddy diving safety procedures was referenced by Jacques Cousteau and the crew of the Calypso in the book "The Silent World".

Yet JYC's first SCUBA dive was with gear he had never used before and solo. They also dove without B/U regulators, BC's, SPG's etc... which influenced their need for buddy/safety divers more than anything else. Otherwise, JYC et al did some of the most fringy diving around.

Diving is a social activity, so the buddy system is more than a safety rule. Diving with someone you know and are comfortable with adds to the fun. Most divers actually enjoy companionship in and out of the water. It is fun to share exciting adventures and experiences with others. Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types.

What a stupid, muddy the waters, arguement. I've never understood the "fun" factor when discussing the benefits of a safety regime (GUE uses the same wording too). But I do like the little slap in the face re: misanthropic personality types. I guess if you disagree with PADI you're one of them.

That said, no amount of redundant equipment can effectively back up a diver's brain better than another individual.

unless that other individuals brain is sub standard. Then it is simular to diving with an empty redundant air source. So the question would be: Is it safer to dive with an empty redundant airsource or none at all?

Diving alone reduces the chance of survival regardless of the problem.

Unless you count those diving deaths where one buddy was killed by the other.

Since 1989, there were at least 538 fatalities where it was clear divers were either intentionally diving solo, or became separated from a buddy and were de facto alone.

You always know someone is losing an arguement when they need to skue the facts in their favor. Since when is buddy seperation the same as solo diving? Isn't that a failure of the buddy system? And how many buddy based diver fatalities occurred in the same time frame anyways?

Besides, how long will it be before a solo death results in a suit against a magazine or other forum endorsing solo diving, a practice that is contrary to community practice. There is nothing to prevent such lawsuits from arising.

Plain old SCUBA diving goes against community practices too. We are land based mammals after all. How long until a training/certification organization like PADI gets sued... oh yeah, you've got your lawyers on that already with your release from liability forms. If your "community practices" were so safe you would do away with those waivers now wouldn't you?


I'm PADI trained myself but I think so much of this is ballyhoo. Whoopee, PADI believes solo divers should be well trained and prepared - give them a cookie. The rest just sounds like hurt feelings because someone questioned their system in a magazine article.
I'm surprised that an organization that rakes in so much money couldn't hire someone better to compose a more fact based, intelligent response. Instead it is half truths, inuendo and subtle smears.

Other than that I have no firm opinions on the issue

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I actually agree with some of the points of the article, but especially the conclusion:

"...solo diving proponents should advocate responsible solo diving on its own unique merits, requisite training, and equipment needs and not through sensationalized attempts to disparage a proven safety system, that has served the majority of recreational scuba divers well."

Ooops! Now wait a sec:

Most solo proponents already do advocate responsible solo diving! In every recent post on this board, the "solo guys" always recommend caution and restraint to new divers considering solo.

<Mini-rant on> Solo is not for everyone, and should remain taboo for the majority of PADI-trained divers (slap!)... Ooopps, almost forgot, I was trained by PADI in 1976.... back when the course was a wee bit longer, and you needed to actually be able to swim, and buddy breathing was taught, doff all gear in deep end of a DEEP pool, CESA to surface, freedive sans mask and fins and put all gear back on.... the pre-graduation pool dive included DM's giving you a good "mugging" underwater, with your mask being ripped off, air shut off, reg torn from mouth... repeatedly in my case since the DM's were my spearfishing friends .... CESA from about double the depth it is taught today.... and... well you get the idea.

PADI, Where For Art Thou today??? <Mini-rant off>

I guess I'd substitute "proper mindset, situational awareness, and experience" for "requisite training and equipment needs".

Best wishes.