Solo vs. Buddy perspective

[redrover]

In another thread (-would-you-dive-someone-who-wouldn-t-share-air-) I was thinking semantics may have blurred the issue presented. As many Solo divers also Buddy dive, I’m wondering what your thoughts are.

Do you equate diving with a buddy unwilling to share air to diving Solo or, is it more complex than that?

Were you to know a diver was not willing to share their air with you (or someone else) would you automatically assume they had other issues onboard you would not want to be diving anywhere near?

When considering diving with a Buddy, they stated they were unwilling to Share Air, would that fact alone prevent you from diving with them?

 

[Dive-aholic]

I dive solo and consider myself pretty self-sufficient even when diving with a buddy. However, if someone comes right out and says they won't share air, then I'm not diving with that person. Anyone who makes that statement is a few hundred psi short of a full tank and other issues may arise during the dive that I don't want to be around for. There's something wrong with someone who feels that way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

When I dive, I do so with the equipment (including people) that I consider appropriate for the dive. The bottom line is that I'm going to know who I'm diving with and be of the opinion that it's a good match for the dive or I'd rather do something else for the day.

In the case of the person in question, what worries me is the whole attitude displayed and I'd rather not be around it at all...in or out of the water.

 

[dave4868]

In another thread (-would-you-dive-someone-who-wouldn-t-share-air-) I was thinking semantics may have blurred the issue presented. As many Solo divers also Buddy dive, I’m wondering what your thoughts are.

Do you equate diving with a buddy unwilling to share air to diving Solo or, is it more complex than that?

Were you to know a diver was not willing to share their air with you (or someone else) would you automatically assume they had other issues onboard you would not want to be diving anywhere near?

When considering diving with a Buddy, they stated they were unwilling to Share Air, would that fact alone prevent you from diving with them?

Sounds like you're asking if a stated unwillingness to share air is a sign of malignant character issues.

I'd say it is.

I wouldn't even car pool to the dive site with someone like that, let alone dive with him.

Dave C

 

[ClayJar]

Do you equate diving with a buddy unwilling to share air to diving Solo or, is it more complex than that?

What I call "solo diving" may not be what others call solo. I do not consider a buddies who do not follow a standard of care to be solo diving just because one ignores (or avoids) the other. Broken buddy dives are not solo dives to me, as solo diving is more than just diving apart.

Were you to know a diver was not willing to share their air with you (or someone else) would you automatically assume they had other issues onboard you would not want to be diving anywhere near?

I would not consider it an assumption; I would consider it a validated assessment. Sharing air is no big deal, and being too something or other to share air with an in-control diver indicates some sort of pathology. Not trying to share air with someone in obvious uncontrolled panic is one thing, but saying you will not share air regardless is something else entirely.

When considering diving with a Buddy, they stated they were unwilling to Share Air, would that fact alone prevent you from diving with them?

If they were unwilling to share air, they are almost certain to be unwilling to assist in any other circumstances. (If sharing air is that off-putting to them, cutting you out of an entanglement likely would be unconscionable.) I, on the other hand, could not stand by and watch them in peril without attempting to intervene. In my own self-interest, then, I would have to consider how much potential danger they were exposing me to, and from that I would decide.

I may dive around them on a basic-OW-style dive, but I wouldn't get near them on a more challenging dive. I would stay away even in some conditions where I would have no reservations when diving solo, as I would have fewer responsibilities as a solo diver than if I had to care for myself and also watch the pathological anti-buddy.

(I say "anti-buddy" because everything a buddy would add to a solo diver, that diver would require of me, while he would provide nothing in return. With respect to my safety, he is approximately the inverse of another solo diver buddying with me.)

 

[divenutny]

I agree with Dive-aholic. I dive solo. A number of the people I dive with also dive solo. None of the people I dive with would deny air to anyone. If a diver is that selfish to not share air, I do not want to know that person. Diving with this person would be out of the question.

I think too much thought is going on here. When I dive, I do not plan to share air. None in my group of divers do. We all dive, watching our air and ndl. We end our dives when a ndl is reached or low on air. I have never seen a diver run out of air. I'm sure it happens. I done about 300 dives with roughly 40 different buddies ( I do not solo dive all the time ). I have never had to share air. Not sure I understand the reason for the question. I do feel that divers that ignore their air and run low should consider another sport before hurting themselves or others. But, if they do not dive, how can they improve? Every diver should work toward being totally self-sufficient. It is tougher for some than others. They should train toward self-sufficiency. Telling someone you will not share air does not help, rather make the situation worse. It is one thing needing a buddy that is not around, another when the buddy sees a problem and ignores it.

Equipment fails, typically after it has been serviced. Not sure of the chances my reg and pony failing at the same time, but I suspect it can happen. My pony was dirty(cob web on the exhaust port). When I exhaled, the exhaust port stuck open. I used the purge button to check it. The day I tried to breath from it, it would not work. Luckily, I noticed the issue before I needed the pony. My mistake that I will not repeat. Again, if the buddy saw an issue then refused to help, I have no respect for that person. Maybe I am overreacting.

I hope none of us have to deal with this situation - Tom

Tom

 

[redrover]

Sounds like you're asking if a stated unwillingness to share air is a sign of malignant character issues.

I'd say it is.

I wouldn't even car pool to the dive site with someone like that, let alone dive with him.

Dave C

Yes it is turning out to be the most of it.
Presuming there was likely to be some valid reason to, I completely missed the boat on the reason would be unfriendly. Just my logic – you tell me up front you are not going to, seems different than not disclosing critical information.

 

[Timeliner]

That guy who won't share air.......
I know a person like that...

His butt hole grew together when he was a child and as a result he's really full of it.

 

[redrover]

What I call "solo diving" may not be what others call solo. I do not consider a buddies who do not follow a standard of care to be solo diving just because one ignores (or avoids) the other. Broken buddy dives are not solo dives to me, as solo diving is more than just diving apart.

I’m sorry; I’m not following you here. Could you please try that again?

(I say "anti-buddy" because everything a buddy would add to a solo diver, that diver would require of me, while he would provide nothing in return. With respect to my safety, he is approximately the inverse of another solo diver buddying with me.)

Good point.

 

[ClayJar]

Okay, thinking a little harder, I came up with a possibility. It's not relevant to the whole discussion (hehe) that got to this point, of course, but it *is* something.

*If* I were planning a pushing-the-limits solo dive in which I needed all my air to follow my dive and contingency plan, and if someone wanted to buddy up on that dive, I would have to tell them that I could not share air with them, given my plan. That's not the same thing as saying I would not share air; rather, it is saying that my solo dive plan is not compatible with sharing air.

Would I do such a solo dive? Probably not. I like my "safety" margins. Would it be a theoretically valid reason to say for that dive that I cannot share air? It seems that could be the case. Where I diverge from the "would not share" side of things, however, is that *I* would refuse to allow a *buddy* to dive with *me*, as I would not consider myself to be in a position to be able to carry out the duties that I expect of myself and my buddies.

If I were to say I'd buddy with anyone but would not share air if they need it, I would consider that a very bad sign about my care for those with whom I may dive. On the other hand, saying, "I don't have enough air to share, so I cannot in good conscience allow you to dive with me this dive" shows precisely the opposite. Between two true solo divers, there may be a middle ground, where there is a plan mutually agreed upon that says that this is a solo-and-solo dive and relatively very little assistance may be possible. I would not be able to make such a dive (when I'm around others, I cannot release myself from a basic standard of care -- it's just who I am), but I would not judge two solo divers who *did* make such an agreement.

For non-solo divers, I can't think of a case where it would be acceptable behavior to deny outright the standard of care which is the basis of non-solo diving.

I’m sorry; I’m not following you here. Could you please try that again?

Sorry about that. I'll certainly try again. :biggrin:

Basically, in my head at least, I make a strict distinction between solo diving as a choice and diving alone due to any other reason. To me, solo diving must have intent. If a buddy team gets separated, I do not consider that solo diving -- any incidents that may result are (bad) buddy diving incidents, *not* solo diving incidents. If one person willfully swims away from his buddy, he may be solo diving, but his buddy is not.

Perhaps it's a bit arbitrary, but I believe it yields far better information when you make a distinction between poor buddy diving and willful solo diving. (I don't mind other interpretations of what is and isn't solo diving, of course, but I've chosen the one that makes the most sense and provides the most utility for me.