Sotis vs. IANTD

[Wookie]

Well, being a safety diver doesn't hold near the water that being an instructor does, IMO. When in the role of instructor, you are bound to the terms and conditions and standards of the agency you signed on to instruct with, as well as the insurance company that are covering them, and possibly you. Not always, I teach for 2 agencies and get my insurance from neither, only because my insurance is based on a boat, with all of the emphasis on the boat rather than the emphasis on being an instructor, but I digress.

When in a teaching role, you must follow the standards of the agency. There is no defined 'safety diver' role, unless it is contractually spelled out by the hiring authority, say the production company.

For instance. I have a role next month as a safety diver for the Navy. Now, I won't be hired by the Navy, I'm hired by the contractor. The contractor requires that I am able to dive to 100 feet and carry a million in professional liability insurance. That's all. The customer is a defense contractor, they make helicopters. The film makers are a local production company, perfectly competent to dive. My role is to bring prepped cameras (prepped by the sirface crew) to the divers at the bottom when needed after film change. Then, to do any gas swaps needed during deco. So, the role is safety diver, but the action is really grip or camera assistant.

I don't think SDI or RAID have a standard for camera assistant. But I'm still the safety diver, and I will still get paid, and I still have to maintain OSHA compliance.

The point I keep trying to make here, albeit poorly, is that my feelings are that Sotis wasn't there in any sort of role that IANTD would have any part of. They are butt hurt about something that shouldn't involve them at all, took action outside of the scope of their purview, and have been called to task. Should Sotis have understood Stewart's level of certification? Of course he should have. Was Sotis in a position of responsibility to make a safety decision regarding Stewart's fitness to make that particular dive? Only the entity who contracted Sotis and set the terms of the contract know for sure. IANTD is not a part of that contract. Or maybe they are. Maybe the contracting entity contracted Sotis through IANTD. But I doubt it.

To be clear, I don't have any idea of the certification levels of the divers I will be tending next month. They aren't my responsibility. I was hired by the Navy Contractor to perform a certain task. They were hired by the production company (who was hired by the navy contractor) to perform their task. I am their safety diver, but their safety is outside of my scope. Contractually so. Obviously, one of the reasons I was hired is because I am trained to render aid to a diver in distress, but that's not required by this contract.

 

[Doc Ben]

Sotis can't move to another agency, they won't take him because despite what is quoted, he is not a particularly well respected member of this industry which is why they created their own certification agency.

What is your evidence for this? It appears from what I see, Peter has many friends and past students who believe in him and think he is being shafted. He surely has had several events happen to him in a short time, but to say "not particularly well respected" may be just your opinion. I wonder how many others on this SB feel the same way?

When in a teaching role, you must follow the standards of the agency.

Perhaps the most important sentence in all of Frank's rant. LOL. According to what has been filed in court papers, Peter was NOT in a "teaching role" the day of Rob's death.

The point I keep trying to make here, albeit poorly, is that my feelings are that Sotis wasn't there in any sort of role that IANTD would have any part of.

BINGO!!

They are butt hurt about something that shouldn't involve them at all, took action outside of the scope of their purview, and have been called to task.

BINGO again!!

This case is in a discovery phase and documents (training records, etc.) are being requested so we need to wait and see what gets revealed.

Frank...you never answered my question in post#66.

 

[cerich]

may be just your opinion. I wonder how many others on this SB feel the same way?

.

why don't you start a poll here on SB?

That will give you your answer.

 

[tbone1004]

@Doc Ben he wasn't in a teaching role, but per the IANTD S&P it doesn't matter because he was acting as a dive professional which means he is bound by the IANTD standards. If he wasn't paid for his services, and didn't admit to being a safety diver, then he would likely have gotten a slap on the wrist. Since he was a paid safety diver, he is bound by IANTD's S&P and he knowingly allowed a person who's safety he was responsible for to violate their training standards. He admitted to this in the incident report and readmitted it in the lawsuit which is binding unless he admits to perjury.

Regarding my "opinion" on him, start a poll. Ask the members.

After that, we can provide you with some very well respected members of the diving community who were banned from RebreatherWorld for no reason other than disagreeing with him and/or Claudia as well as membership that is no longer participating in that forum or The Deco Stop simply because he owns both forums.

After that, feel free to read these threads to find this forums general opinion
My questionable rebreather training experience
Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

 

[Wookie]

@Doc Ben he wasn't in a teaching role, but per the IANTD S&P it doesn't matter because he was acting as a dive professional which means he is bound by the IANTD standards.

is this true, for reals? IANTD dictates your diving even when you aren't representing them?

In my opinion, that would mean IANTD accepts a huge amount of liability for things that have no control over. I can't imagine anyone doing that on purpose.

 

[tbone1004]

is this true, for reals? IANTD dictates your diving even when you aren't representing them?

In my opinion, that would mean IANTD accepts a huge amount of liability for things that have no control over. I can't imagine anyone doing that on purpose.

He is an ITT, he was acting in a professional role, ergo was representing them because he was acting as a safety diver. No different than acting as a divemaster binds you to the S&P of whatever organization you are representing when working in that role. IANTD has a technical divermaster certification, Sotis is an ITT and is able to teach that course. He was acting as a technical divermaster because he was a paid safety diver.

Where is the confusion?

 

[Wookie]

When I am a paid safety diver, I represent no certification agency. No one has ever asked me for a ccard. I am also a technical divemaster with an IANTD card, although not a member of IANTD. An ADCI card would be more appropriate....

 

[boulderjohn]

He is an ITT, he was acting in a professional role, ergo was representing them because he was acting as a safety diver. No different than acting as a divemaster binds you to the S&P of whatever organization you are representing when working in that role. IANTD has a technical divermaster certification, Sotis is an ITT and is able to teach that course. He was acting as a technical divermaster because he was a paid safety diver.

Where is the confusion?

There is indeed some confusion here, because other agencies are going out of their way to say that people working in roles such as DM are NOT representative of the agency that certified them. A DM works for whoever employs him or her. They are not employed by the agency and are not under agency control. My students must sign a statement saying they understand that I am NOT an agent of PADI. This all comes out of the Dan Carlock decision, when two DMs who were with a dive club that chartered a boat for a 3-tank dive called the roll and missed the fact that Dan had not returned after the dive. PADI was included in the lawsuit under the theory that the DMs were agents of PADI, and PADI paid up to the tune of something like $2 million. They have done all they can to avoid that in the future. If any agency could be automatically guilty every time an individual member screwed up, it would be the end of all agencies pretty quickly.

 

[Wookie]

^^^^yes, this.

 

[cerich]

what if the reasons for Sotis losing his ability to teach was related to standard violations on the course he was teaching Rob..before the accident in question?