Split from Catalina Diver died.. Advanced Certification is a joke

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Jim, are there any other options to your course? What if you have a student who simply has no desire to night dive or has no desire to search and recover an object off the bottom?

No. The options are clearly stated. If one wishes to opt out of the S&R then we can do a wreck dive at additional expense. The only other exception would be if they wished to do an additional dive from those already listed. Under SEI guidleines Deep, Nav, and Night are still required. I am helping to rewrite AOW and AOW plus guidelines to reflect the standards we wish to educate to. One thing I am pushing for is to require those as well as the Advanced Skills and make classroom mandatory. Whether that will happen is unclear. Fortunately I am free to set my prereqs and standards for entry and exit so that students actually benefit from the entire class.

The dives and classroom are set up to build on each other. That is why they are done in the order they are. If you can't do basic skills hovering and swimming with little to no change in buoyancy or work as a team and maintain CONSTANT buddy contact, the Nav exercise is a waste. And if you don't know how to effectively navigate during the day the night dive is meaningless and little more than a handholding exercise. And around here deep means dark, silty, and changes in water density due to thermoclines. Your buoyancy better be on, no vertical descents, you need to know where you are, and your light is your next best friend. The 3 previous dives all reinforce skills needed on this one. And when you are switching to the stage at 70 or 50, and it's dark and you are in midwater with the bottom at 90-100feet, that you left on the descent line in my course, all of that previous experience comes in handy.

The search and recovery dive takes all the skills from the first four and changes the task load. Now it's a bag and reel and line instead of the stage. But still you can handle it with the confidence you've just gained! You can swim 2-3 feet above the bottom and not worry about coming back through a silt cloud because there won't be any! And finally with all this new knowledge, confidence, and skill when I take your mask or your buddy's and you need to guide each other and do a safe ascent you have confidence in each other. You trust each other, You know where each one is and that they can indeed help IF needed.

I also do not have to teach anyone I don't want to . The students who take my class know up front what their options are and what I expect from them. They are free to seek out someone else if they wish. I don't do this for a living. I am not interested in churning out numbers. When a student receives a card from me they have earned it.

I am not a pretty fish junkie. I like to look at them but really don't care what they are. As such if someone comes to me asking for a fish ID class I'll tell em buy a book on Amazon. If something does not actually improve a divers skill, comfort, and safety in the water I have no desire to teach it. My equipment class can save a divers day or prevent a potentially serious problem. It has value. A boat dive for example is covered in OW class and to add it to an AOW course as a separate dive just to get a number of dives has little if any real value other than they can say they went on a boat.
 
Jim, I [-]think[/-] know I need your class! And a reel bargoon at $ 175. The part about gear selection is especially useful. I remember reading in another of your posts that you will also consult with new buyers as to their gear needs. Independent advice. That is vey useful, I think. But your course material does seem like a lot to cover in 6 dives. Especially if your prerequisite is just 10 prior dives. What is your average student experience?

But you sure do make it sound pretty intimidating. I can picture you walking around the classroom, a big ol' riding crop in your hand, with a gaggle of nervous students sweating it out. :D Can't you at least put some smiling attractive models on your site, cheerfully going about their training, showing that Jim is really a fun fun guy?

Which I bet you are. Umm...Jim?

The classroom portion is easily covered in the time allotted. I have a detailed power point that I created over the course of a couple months, whiteboard, handouts, and any resource I can get my hands on. The prereq is 10 dives for MY OW students. It clearly states on my website that I may require more dives, a face to face interview, a pool session or two, and a couple OW dives just for fun to determine if the divers skill level is such that they are indeed ready for this class if I do not know them or the instructor they trained under. I also consider personality, attitude, and overall ability to learn as factors.

So far my AOW students have come to me with better than average skills due to number of dives(25-over 100), time diving (1-10 years or more), and education. Chemist, engineers, former Naval officer, and one very smart and driven housewife:D.

And again the dives are 45 minutes to an hour long and I never take more than 4 students, and enjoy one on one's at no extra charge for private lessons. The ideal class is 2 students who can buddy up or happen to be regular buddies. I love teaching this course. It is work but it is also a helluva lot of fun for me and them. I teach the classroom in my living room. The student sits in a big recliner. There are my fish tanks, my cats, and my books. It is relaxed but serious. We do laugh, at me, at them, at other divers, and at some of my lousy powerpoint illustrations. I'm no artist!
We also look at dive profiles, autopsy reports, and witness statements. And while we do have fun the number one concern is diver safety.

At any time if I feel a diver is not taking safety issues seriously or disregards safety protocols they get one warning. A second offense is grounds for ending the class, no refund, no cert, and no coming back. Every student I certify has to pass the loved one test. If I would not trust them to dive with someone I cared for without me or another pro in the water then they do not get a card. I train until that is met or they give up.
 
Thank you Jim, and Bob ... for offering those classes

and to any other instructors for caring and making sure that the divers that they certify are safe divers


JimLap:
At any time if I feel a diver is not taking safety issues seriously or disregards safety protocols they get one warning. A second offense is grounds for ending the class, no refund, no cert, and no coming back. Every student I certify has to pass the loved one test. If I would not trust them to dive with someone I cared for without me or another pro in the water then they do not get a card. I train until that is met or they give up.
Edit: Jim, that last paragraph above is GOLDEN :)
 
i wouldn't say that the curriculum per se is bad. i would have to say it's a two-way responsibility between the student and the instructor. why?

(a) student - because he/she should've assessed him/herself if she could take the course with her current ability. it's like teaching a baby to jump from the bed without even learning how to walk. not bragging or something but i was confident enough to take aow after having only 5 dives because i was a competitive swimmer way back and still continues on swimming so i somehow can control myself.. plus i asked my instructor and other dm's re aow and what i would be expecting while taking the course.

(b) instructor - based on the above description, i would've sounded too confident as swimming is a way too different from diving. although my instructor was the one who offered me to advance to aow, he made sure that he always had enough logistics to support students like me. way back my aow, we were a class of 4 supported by 4 dive master candidates (and my instructor was assessing them how they are going to assist us and! we had to rate them afterwards which is the cool part) so that was pretty safe and comfy as far learning is concerned.

after aow, i was pretty confident with my skills and was able to maximise my diving experience as i can go as deep as 150ft. but then again, not all experiences were perfect as from time to time i also experience my very own failures and hardships as i get to log more dives. when i was offered a rescue-to-instructor ladderised program of some sort, i declined his offer and informed him that i wanted to log 100 dives first as i felt most comfortable taking the course by that number of experience. 6 mos of diving later, i gave in to just rescue but told my instructor to have it as a "wip" (work in progress) until i finish 60 dives and he agreed.

lessons: there are a lot of money mongering instructors and overconfident rich students nowadays.

(a) students should assess themselves whether they are ready for the course with their abilities
(b) students should also assess their instructors whether they think they are just sucking out bucks from their bank by offering promising courses. if you intuit that you are not ready to take the course then stop
(c) instructors should assess their students before offering the course and must have enough logistics to support them
(d) there should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be an open dialogue between instructors and students... my buddies and i were able to establish a bond with our instructor that we are comfortable enough to say what we feel (even telling him that his new girlfriend is cooler and his ex sucks and he saying jokingly that our work is a hindrance to diving and good beer)

just my 2 cents...
 
I represent the OW student who was trained in tropical water, because I wanted to see all the really neat things I had snorkeled above. I had a great OW experience, followed by another tropical excusion a month following certification. Was I competent enough to go out and dive without a DM or instructor? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Was I becoming aware of the things I didn't know that I didn't know? Oh yeah, however this was partly due to the gurus on this board and DMX. Still go out and read Bob's gas management articles. What the guru's instilled in me was a desire to become a diver. I went out and bought a drysuit knowing that MT water is just plain cold. I then got involved with my LDS and mentored with them. I have been a sponge!! My instructor has introduced me to a whole new approach. I entered his AOW class in July and have yet to do a AOW dive. I have been involved with OW classes, VIPed tanks, discussed the many equipment differences. I have been allowed to dive with AL80, and steel 80, 100 and 120, changing trim options, weight belts, integrated weight and weight harnesses. Discussions then revolve around the difference in buoyancy and trim with the various configurations. I have had numerous opportunities to continue to refine buoyancy and develop gas conservation.

Do I care if I finish my AOW class. Not really. Do I think that finishing the class will make me an advanced diver. Same answer. Do i now get more excited about getting underwater more often. HELL yes! I even get excited about diving in the cool water of MT.

This is my opinion of what accumulating more experience is all about. I don't care about earning additional merit badges for the sake of having more cert cards. I am more interested in the pursuit of knowledge to develop in me knowledge of those things that I don't know I don't know. Knowledge and then attaining experience by diving in different scenarios is my goal. Certainly an AOW class done in the tropics would not be as great an accomplishment for me as doing a deep dive in the cold with vis around 15 feet. Each diver must determine their goals and pursue a career path to accomplish them.

The AOW class can be an experience. Upon completion of my OW certification, I attended two classes of an AOW class because I was allowed. I was able to do a night dive and a deep dive under the supervision of my instructor. Was the deep dive out of my realm? Oh yeah. Gets back to the "don't know what you don't know" issue. However, my buoyancy at 10 dives was better than this group of AOW students. Did they deserve to pass? I don't care, that issue belongs to the scuba police.

Will taking AOW make me a better diver. Only because my instructor and I chose to hold my diving standards to a very high level. For me education is one critical element, experience is another and finding mentors to create the desire to be the best safe diver is the final part. Must be the rule of thirds. OMG, I am becoming NW Grateful Diver. Well maybe not yet, however I can strive to have just a portion of his wisdom.
 
Having just returned from Aruba where I completed my PADI AOW, with just over 10 dives prior to AOW, I can surely say I'm no advanced diver. However, before heading to Aruba, I completed Peak Performance Buoyancy and found the variety of dives within AOW allowed me to practice, under supervision, my control and all the other OW skills. The instructer from my local DS, who taught the Buoyancy class, inserted tasks in that class that were unexpected. The class consisted of me and one other diver. While maintaining buoyancy control, we were required to conduct out-of-air drills, close buddy contact, navigation, and teamwork, all while controlling our place in the water column. The result was better overall understanding of our underwater challenges, and more confidence.

I think the biggest problem for the beginning diver is not only lack of dive time, but lack of practice in the skills necessary for dealing with the unexpected. Floating along a reef as I did in Aruba, gazing at beautiful aquatic life, is great, but you don't prepare for events that can occur. I would think that all courses would include a review of skills and practice. Practice makes a response routine so panic can be minimized.

I hope to continue to add dive time and to get the opportunity to dive with more experienced divers. The AOW course simply increased my exposure to dive environments and allowed me to identify skill areas I want to further improve.

Locally I can sign up for a "rent-an-instructor" dive to continue to work on specific skills and still have supervision.

Now my challenge is finding a good dive buddy.
 
I represent the OW student

SNIP

I am becoming NW Grateful Diver. Well maybe not yet, however I can strive to have just a portion of his wisdom.

You sound like a real diver to me, not that you need my validation. Let me know if you ever want to dive down in Florida or Georgia, I'll dive with you.
 
Hey DandyDon
SDI has a course named Advanced Adventure Diver. The content looks nearly identical to PADI's AOW course. Perhaps this is where you got confused.

Dive safe, Dive often.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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