"Sports drinks"

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Funny. Just commented in another thread about cramping. Whatever you say. If I drink "Body Armor" sports drink while diving-I don't get cramps. If I don't drink it-I get cramps, including calfs and hamstrings. I run 5k of mountain trails 3 days a week, I ride road bike 1-2 times a week for 15-30 miles (with a lot of climbing). I am in good shape (30 burpees in 1:30min, for example). If I don't drink "Body Armor"-I get cramps almost every time while diving, but always on second and third dive of the day. If I do drink it-no cramps.
 
...downhill bikers are hardly the poster children for any kind of pedalling....sure they pedal....but it is almost a different sport...

It's only downhill on the way to work. Coming back I get to pedal (and against the wind, too).
 
I found long ago that if I drink just water during physical exertion (cycling, hiking, etc), it quickly gets to the point where the water just sits in my stomach and sloshes around, rather than being absorbed. Sports drinks seem to absorb much quicker for me. Typically I carry one bottle of water and one of sports drink, and switch back and forth between them depending on what I feel like at the time I'm drinking; my body seems to know what it needs most of the time. For very high exertion levels like a race or a very long ride, I use Accelerade, which also has some protein in it (4:1 carbs to protein ratio) to speed up absorption even more. I mix it stronger in cold weather when I'm not sweating as much, and water it down some in hot weather when I'm sweating more. It works for me, but YMMV.
 
It's a balance game. Big ones would mess your technique if you overuse them, small ones won't pump up your muscles as much.

In any swimming style other than breastroke most of your propulsion comes from the arms so in a swim workout you would want to work arms. Or just because you get plenty of leg work with biking and fin swims etc. and you want to "balance out" the other end.

They also have a couple of versions of "oval" ones like these: Aqua Sphere Alpha Fins at SwimOutlet.com that work for frog kick as well as for flutter kick.
OK I think I get it. Small ones won't mess up your arm technique. Like when I used ankle weights playing basketball a century ago. Or weights on a bat in the on deck circle. The swim fins will make arm strokes more strenuous thus building those muscles. Am I correct?
 
OK I think I get it. Small ones won't mess up your arm technique. Like when I used ankle weights playing basketball a century ago. Or weights on a bat in the on deck circle. The swim fins will make arm strokes more strenuous thus building those muscles. Am I correct?

Sorry for being unclear.

Large fins will give you slower kick cycle, wrong foot position to keep the blades from hitting each other, and more foot cramps because it'll take more effort to keep the blade from twisting/sliding sideways. Small fins won't mess up your technique, that includes short fast rather than wide slow kicks. Small fins won't build up your leg muscles as fast as larger fins would.

Same goes for hand paddles. There are different shapes and sizes, including just webbed gloves.

When you work legs and arms separately, using fins and paddles resp., you try to not overdevelop one or the other. So if you do fins & kickboard drills in your workout, you'd also do paddles and pull buoy drills. If you're a triathlete you might want to do more of the latter because your legs also get the biking and running workouts that don't involve the arms so much. If you compete in crawls or bat you might want to work the legs more as most propulsion (and effort) in those styles comes from the arms and you legs tend to get underdeveloped. Relatively speaking.

Or at least that's what they told me way back when I swam.
 
Sorry for being unclear.

Large fins will give you slower kick cycle, wrong foot position to keep the blades from hitting each other, and more foot cramps because it'll take more effort to keep the blade from twisting/sliding sideways. Small fins won't mess up your technique, that includes short fast rather than wide slow kicks. Small fins won't build up your leg muscles as fast as larger fins would.

Same goes for hand paddles. There are different shapes and sizes, including just webbed gloves.

When you work legs and arms separately, using fins and paddles resp., you try to not overdevelop one or the other. So if you do fins & kickboard drills in your workout, you'd also do paddles and pull buoy drills. If you're a triathlete you might want to do more of the latter because your legs also get the biking and running workouts that don't involve the arms so much. If you compete in crawls or bat you might want to work the legs more as most propulsion (and effort) in those styles comes from the arms and you legs tend to get underdeveloped. Relatively speaking.

Or at least that's what they told me way back when I swam.
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Of course, this is good advice for a swimmer that does not care much about diving....but bad advice for a DIVER that was considering swimming for diving fitness.

Training with big freedive fins like DiveR's does mean a slow kick cycle, and a slow heart rate while actual speeds are many times that of a swimmer with tiny fins or no fins. Actual training with these fins means neuromuscular coordination occurs ( for most athletic people) and the fins don't hit each other, and the leg, hip and core muscles all become fit for this activity.

A swimmer in a swim contest, actually wants a high heart rate and breathing rate....and when swimming laps, they want a high use of aerobic system. with little muscle exertion relative to it....

In diving, you want the leg muscles to do the work, rather than heart and lungs...so heart rate may stay at 60 or 70 bpm, with a 2mph pace....while the swimmer would need high heart rate to power the exertion, rather than the large muscles.

On a race bike....this is riding in a big gear--like a 52 x 12 ( what you could go fastest in with unlimited power..think of 5th gear in a sports car....instead of riding the bike in a 42 x 25 ( which is a tiny little gear used to climb a very steep hill....legs spin with little exertion, and heart and lungs provide more aerobic power compared to muscle output). Split fins or barefoot is more like the little gear--the 42-25 or 42x 32..... Big gear on a bike, refers to the original Penny Farthing bikes...the ones with a huge front wheel sometimes 5 feet high or more...with a tiny rear wheel...pedals were on the big wheel....Big wheel meant you could go faster, if you were strong enough--this was a big gear....for lots of hills, the rider of that day would want a bike with a smaller front wheel--a smaller gear :)

I will ride a 25 mile ( 40k) time trial in a 52 x 13 and average over 25 mph with a heart rate around 183...If I go to a smaller gear like a 52 x 15, it is easier on my leg muscles, but my heart rate will go up to the high 190's or above, which would be above my anaerobic threshold today..and not sustainable for more than a few miles.

With fins, you want the biggest gear you can handle without cramping up in the durations you dive in. Since I rarely dive more than 2 hours, I use a freedive fin that is made to be stiffer than the ones used for 8 hour long freedive competitons--that are quite soft and would spaghetti badly for me on normal dives... If your fins bend all the way, easily, you are wasting power.

diveR_Blades1.jpg
 
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I found long ago that if I drink just water during physical exertion (cycling, hiking, etc), it quickly gets to the point where the water just sits in my stomach and sloshes around, rather than being absorbed.
Apparently, different bodies react differently. No surprise, though :)

For me, water is more than good enough during moderately intensive physical exertion (including 8+ hour hikes, but for so long periods i make sure to eat a bit once or twice - or thrice), but during more intensive sessions (say, a two-hour bike ride), I get that feeling too. So, less than an hour, or moderate intensity: water; longer than an hour and high(ish) intensity: something with a bit of sugar. Usually that's diluted sports drinks, or thin lemonade, or juice+water.
 
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Of course, this is good advice for a swimmer that does not care much about diving....but bad advice for a DIVER that was considering swimming for diving fitness.

1. Swimming laps in the pool in large fins just sucks. You get hamstring cramps trying to turn around at the wall and you get foot cramps from trying to keep the blade straight during the 2 kicks you can fit in into the 25 yards. (Unless you have access to an Olympic 50-meter pool, then you might be able to squeeze in 5 kicks.) And then you hit the wall and have to turn around again. "Diving" fins with the blade angled parallel to the top of the foot just slap on top of the water, what a waste of effort. And a waste of fin since the material is not intended for use in chlorine: you'll be lucky if your fins last one winter.

2. More importantly, if you google for proper scuba fin technique you'll find that for flutter kick it's the straight leg, hyperextended ankle, and kicking with glutes and quads, which is precisely what swimming fin technique is. "Bicycle" kick with bent knees and "hook" feet is everybody's "don't".

3. It'd be silly to do cardio while diving, but an average generic "you" might want to do it for diving fitness: look up aerobic exercise on e.g. pikiwedia and consider what "increasing the total number of red blood cells in the body, facilitating transport of oxygen" would do to your SAC. You personally with 180+ bpm heart rate in "aerobic zone" needn't care about that. For me 180 is above my google-recommended max heart rate so I'll stick to my cardio drills thankyouverymuch.

That said, yes: when I dive I try to swim as little as possible. Doesn't everyone?
 
1. Swimming laps in the pool in large fins just sucks. You get hamstring cramps trying to turn around at the wall and you get foot cramps from trying to keep the blade straight during the 2 kicks you can fit in into the 25 yards. (Unless you have access to an Olympic 50-meter pool, then you might be able to squeeze in 5 kicks.) And then you hit the wall and have to turn around again. "Diving" fins with the blade angled parallel to the top of the foot just slap on top of the water, what a waste of effort. And a waste of fin since the material is not intended for use in chlorine: you'll be lucky if your fins last one winter.

2. More importantly, if you google for proper scuba fin technique you'll find that for flutter kick it's the straight leg, hyperextended ankle, and kicking with glutes and quads, which is precisely what swimming fin technique is. "Bicycle" kick with bent knees and "hook" feet is everybody's "don't".

3. An average generic "you" don't do cardio while diving, but might want to do it for diving fitness: look up aerobic exercise on e.g. pikiwedia and consider what "increasing the total number of red blood cells in the body, facilitating transport of oxygen" would do to your SAC. You personally with 180+ bpm heart rate needn't care about that. For me 180 is above my google-recommended max. so I'll stick to my cardio drills thankyouverymuch.

That said, yes: when I dive I try to swim as little as possible. Doesn't everyone?

I am not argueing with you about use of big fins in the pool....

I do take issue with the technique for kicking with fins though.....the wiki description is so simplified it is useless.
Feet are hyper extended , yes.....legs are flutter kicking in a manner describable in the manner of crawl or freestyle kicking....but there are enormous differences.
With a fin type like the DiveR's, or any freedive fin, it is quite easy to feel and see the bend in the fin....and to use a long or large amplitude kick to keep the bend for as long as it is effective at delivering thrust....the big arcs your legs can describe, can hold the bend in the fin quite a while...nothing like a short stiff fin like a jet6 fin...and nothing like a bare foot, that is almost useless as a lever for thrust--a gear...and the whole "bend" issue and thrust possible by the angle of the foot as it is arced through the water, is almost worthless as thrust when compared to what you could do with a freedive fin.

Also....after the hamstrings and hips pull the leg/fin to the furthest dorsal point in the arc, at which point that leg begins to be pulled down and forward....the knee begins with a bend of maybe 30 or 40 degrees in an easy cruising pace ( much less when you are trying to oscillate the blades for very high speeds) and then starts to extend ( like a quad extension exercise) ...and the ankle is used with the contraction of the quads and straightening of the leg, to keep a nice bend in the fin for as wide a range of motion as the thrust can remain efficient...and the diver feels this efficiency quite easily.

Most divers do not swim efficiently with fins...most do not train to do this....and most dont care that they are not using fins that "could" make them go much faster and more efficiently than they do presently.
In person, I can easily demonstrate this. Here....anyone can claim anything, and the discussion fails quickly.
What I can say, and what quite a few on sb have seen, is that with the DiveR fins I use, and the technique I am discussing, there has never been a current in Palm beach I can't beat and swim upstream for long distance in..if I so choose....but the diver using the classic splits or other mediocre fins, with the wiki described kick stroke, would be a "leaf in the wind" going down current uncontrollably, in a 3 to 4 mph Palm beach current.
 
Water, water and some more water. Papayas for potassium and steaks for everything else.

Ok rum too, but that's for the soul not for the body.
 

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