SSI Class - Failed

[boulderjohn]

I guess the second question is, why isn't SCUBA training a little more like academic training? There should be lots of quizzes or tests throughout the course, and people who do poorly should be stopped at that level and helped. The instructor should advertise additional instruction at a reasonable rate. Additionally, shops should heavily advertise the internet and work to set up local resources such as a dive club to help people get advice and learn from other divers.

The confined water portion of scuba is exactly like this. It has little quizzes along the way, and people who do poorly are expected to be stopped at that level and helped. When you perform your first mask clearing exercise, that is a quiz. If you don't do well on it, you are supposed to be stopped and helped until you do well. Then you go on to the next exercise and the process is repeated. By the time you finish with the confined water skills, you are supposed to have gotten a passing grade on everything you did so far. If a student has not gotten a passing grade on everything done so far, the student should not have completed all the skills.

If you complete all the requirements of the confined water portion of the class, you are supposed to have passed everything.

 

[Davemohio]

I agree it sounds very strange that everyone in the class was not prepared

+1.

Never heard of anything like it either.

 

[flots am]

In professional education courses, you pay to take a class. Lets say you are taking College Algebra. If you fail, the college will charge you to re-take the class. I have a relative that failed that class 4 times in a row and he paid for it each and every time.

Colleges will give you as much help as you can stand, in nearly any class, for no additional charge.

If your relative failed, it's because he didn't make passing a priority, not because the school wanted money.

flots.

 

[AfterDark]

Some prepaid the $180, not sure if they will ever see their money again. To retake the entire course they instructor offered for $50. (seems a bit weird)

Am I getting this right? You all can take the entire course over for $50.00 each? I think something smells here too, but $50.00 isn't a lot of money for someone looking forward to diving on vacation or just diving. Tell the instructor you'll buy some gear from him if wavies the fee? Best of luck with this, it all seems very strange to me.

 

[DevonDiver]

Am I getting this right? You all can take the entire course over for $50.00 each?

Sounds to me like a misinterpretation. $50 would be reasonable for a repetition of confined water - to get them up to speed for OW dives.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Sounds to me like a misinterpretation. $50 would be reasonable for a repetition of confined water - to get them up to speed for OW dives.

With all due respect to your opinion Devon, it sounds to me as if the owner/instructor is saying, "I didn't make enough money so I'll charge you $50 to get back in the pool to get back up to speed." I will be willing to bet you a dinner, that once it is paid, they get back in the water, then the miracles will begin. Everyone will be able to do then entire confined water in, oh say, 1.5 hours. To me, the one biggest thing is that has been common throughout this thread is that no one has ever seen 7 fail in the same class. Especially by waiting to the final session to say, you're not ready, that will be $50 more please, THEN you'll be ready.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think we'd need to see the agreed/contract 'provision of service', between Groupon and the instructor/center... in order to know exactly how reasonable the course provision was. Groupon must (?) establish a specific schedule of training (x hours theory/x hours confined/x dives open water).

Is there a small-print in the customer's contract/sale that stipulates anything about qualification guarantee, or just that they'd receive 'x' training? Or if there is a clause covering failure/extensions?

I wonder if group size is mentioned in those?

With all due respect to your opinion Devon, it sounds to me as if the owner/instructor is saying, "I didn't make enough money so I'll charge you $50 to get back in the pool to get back up to speed."

That'd be a cynical assumption to make.

Personally, as an instructor, I wouldn't touch Groupon with a barge-pole. Too many issues with course provision and quality - too much stress with profitability from a 'volume' market.

I tend to be unapologetic about being 'not the least expensive' instructor - and I also tend to reserve my cynicism for students who only look for the cheapest option - and then, in most cases, complain vociferously about the lack of quality in the cheapo course they took...

I will be willing to bet you a dinner, that once it is paid, they get back in the water, then the miracles will begin.

I wouldn't take that bet. More training will make better divers. The issue unresolved is exactly at what standard they are now... and whether they are being withheld from progression due to an objective agency standard.... or a subject instructor standard.

To me, the one biggest thing is that has been common throughout this thread is that no one has ever seen 7 fail in the same class.

The thought that enters my mind is whether the instructor is paid by Groupon on the basis of blocks of 'full class' (8 pax?) or as individuals? That could create some issues whereby the instructor was pressured to treat the class as a whole, rather than individual students - meaning if a significant portion of the class weren't ready, then ALL would be withheld?

Also.. there may be economies of scale... that the Groupon payment system/rate doesn't anticipate... where splitting the class (some to remediate/some to progress) could actually make the course a loss-maker for the instructor?

Either of those hypothesis might explain why 7/7 were withheld from progressing. Not exactly fair on the individual student... but that's what you get when you shop for the cheapest.

At the least... they get another confined session to refine and improve... all for $50.... which is cheap.

Don't most of the posts here on Scubaboard echo a sentiment that OW training is too short? How can an extended course be a bad thing?

 

[Paladin]

I agree with rhwestfall. Something really stinks here. When my oldest son went for his certification, we were told that the cost of the course was $400, including equipment if needed. My son had some issues that his instructor felt were serious enough that he would not sign off on the confined water portion of the training. He worked with my son, in the pool, for almost a year, nearly all of it on a one on one basis. In the end, my son was OW certified through PADI and NAUI. Now here is the best part: No money changed hands until after my son was certified and the price was the same as if my boy had passed the course with his class.

 

[SnorkelLA]

Give the name of the shop to SSI, as well figure out the name of the instructor and his cert. # and give it to SSI. Especially with a great organization like SSI if you give them that info and explain the situation he won't be around for another 2 months!

 

[koozemani]

It seems that I have seen more than a few derogatory threads where groupon classes have been concerned.

Imo, I have to agree that students are tested throughout the class. Failure to properly demonstrate a skill constitutes failing a portion of the class and should be addressed until the student is able demonstrate a level of proficiency. When this occurs, it should be obvious to all present which students had issues with which skills. The fact that everyone was surprised by the instructors claim seems fishy.

I wouldn't mind from seeing some input from other students in the class to see how their impressions of the class align with the op's.