Starting a Police Dive Team

[Bowtie22]

I thought that I would ask around here to see if anyone had any ideas on how to persuade a police agency to start up a dive team. We have our SWAT team as the "Dive Team"; however there are only about 3 divers on SWAT that have any real experience in the water. Our SWAT team is trying to be more of a Navy SEAL team than anything (we do have a need for these SEAL type operations since we are near Wash DC with the responsibility of a Nuke plant, LNG gas plant and a large bridge).
The problem is that most of the SWAT divers have only open water Certs with very limited diving experience. As far as any SAR goes we have a 100% volunteer dive rescue team. Again these guys are needed but the response time to an incident that they may be needed can be hours. Not to mention but since we are surrounded by water...we have crimes that are committed and evidence that is thrown off of bridges and shores. Hey..... guess who attempts to recover these items........the volunteer divers with absolutely no law enforcement background. That is where I start to get very frustrated!
We have had a need for a Police agency dive team that is capable of evidence collection, and Search and Rescue. With patrol officers on the street already the response time to any incident would be minutes not hours. Not to mention but if we are searching for evidence we won't have to wait 2 weeks to attempt to recover evidence that is in the water
Here is what usually happens after we get information that there is important evidence in the water at a particular site..... first we sit on our thumbs trying to figure out who can search and potentially recover the evidence off of the bottom and out of the silt and sand, next we ask SWAT SEAL team they say they are not able to perform this type of function, then we contact the volunteer dive squad.... and since no ones life in jeopardy we will wait for a week or 2 so they can get all the logistics worked out, then...............BAM!!! We can't find anything because the currents, tides and fisherman may have swept it off or it is too silted in the bottom from sitting too long.)

So.... that leads me to this....my shift alone has 4 well experienced divers on it that all feel the same way about this issue and are more than willing to take on the task of organizing such a team. The problem is...we a Sheriff’s Dept and we have to get the political approval first, the rest should be all down hill.

What the agency is saying.... the funding isn't there, the need, the usefulness, the equipment prices, liabilities, risks, and dangers....on and on!!!!

Does anyone have any ideas on how to prove these points to the agency? Has anyone else struggled with the same problems trying to push for a dive team? Any useful information or web links would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[taopitek]

I thought that I would ask around here to see if anyone had any ideas on how to persuade a police agency to start up a dive team. We have our SWAT team as the "Dive Team"; however there are only about 3 divers on SWAT that have any real experience in the water. Our SWAT team is trying to be more of a Navy SEAL team than anything (we do have a need for these SEAL type operations since we are near Wash DC with the responsibility of a Nuke plant, LNG gas plant and a large bridge).
The problem is that most of the SWAT divers have only open water Certs with very limited diving experience. As far as any SAR goes we have a 100% volunteer dive rescue team. Again these guys are needed but the response time to an incident that they may be needed can be hours. Not to mention but since we are surrounded by water...we have crimes that are committed and evidence that is thrown off of bridges and shores. Hey..... guess who attempts to recover these items........the volunteer divers with absolutely no law enforcement background. That is where I start to get very frustrated!
We have had a need for a Police agency dive team that is capable of evidence collection, and Search and Rescue. With patrol officers on the street already the response time to any incident would be minutes not hours. Not to mention but if we are searching for evidence we won't have to wait 2 weeks to attempt to recover evidence that is in the water
Here is what usually happens after we get information that there is important evidence in the water at a particular site..... first we sit on our thumbs trying to figure out who can search and potentially recover the evidence off of the bottom and out of the silt and sand, next we ask SWAT SEAL team they say they are not able to perform this type of function, then we contact the volunteer dive squad.... and since no ones life in jeopardy we will wait for a week or 2 so they can get all the logistics worked out, then...............BAM!!! We can't find anything because the currents, tides and fisherman may have swept it off or it is too silted in the bottom from sitting too long.)

So.... that leads me to this....my shift alone has 4 well experienced divers on it that all feel the same way about this issue and are more than willing to take on the task of organizing such a team. The problem is...we a Sheriff’s Dept and we have to get the political approval first, the rest should be all down hill.

What the agency is saying.... the funding isn't there, the need, the usefulness, the equipment prices, liabilities, risks, and dangers....on and on!!!!

Does anyone have any ideas on how to prove these points to the agency? Has anyone else struggled with the same problems trying to push for a dive team? Any useful information or web links would be greatly appreciated!!!

Yes if you go to http://www.tdisdi.com/erdi/erdihome.html there is some one who who can help you with all that. They specialize in dealling with gov. police fire etc... Most of there courses are not open to the general public or to recreational divers

 

[mike_s]

In ScubaDiving or DiveTraining magazine or Sport Diver magazine last month there was an article on the FBI Dive Team and what they did.

They did diving as more of a forensic search/recovery/evidence/etc instead of a SWAT based effort. You might want to try it from that angle of forensic and evidence recovery. That way you can seperate this effort from the SWAT team.

 

[Boater Dan]

James:

There are many different ways to approach your issues. First off, being in the DC area, I would think that it would be relatively easy to approach application for Homeland Security funding as a Sheriff's department. I do not know your structure or your grant writing process. It sounds as though you have call for expanding the SWAT team to include additional personnel. In business, you develop a needs assessment to outline the shortcomings within the organization, develop the strategy to address those needs, the plan to implement, and provide the full solution to the management to evaluate. If you cannot sell management with a carefully laid out and developed solution, it probably won't happen. Part of the overall analysis should be a SWOT analysis of the situation. What are the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats to the current situation.

Second, I would suggest sitting down and developing some training for the Volunteer Team. I am a member of a volunteer fire department team and we work very closely with a number of police departments, DA's office, Sheriff's Department to assist in the recovery of weapons. We have been trained that every scene is a crime scene until otherwise determined. We are aware of the safe handling, evidence preservation, protocols, and evidence control requirements. I would be very surprised that the volunteer team would shun training or the opportunity to get wet!!!! Communications, well easy and cheap, is sometimes very difficult to accomplish. Find the key driving individuals on the Dive Team and approach them.

Finally, I will never put any diver in a hazardous situation for the purpose of evidence recovery. Sometimes you put off evidence recovery until proper planning, water conditions, or staffing can be put into place. Always run a risk, reward analysis on every dive. Evidence is not worth a life.

Good luck with your efforts. It may take some effort to prepare a written plan to present to the leadership, but a planned effort will yield much better results than a simple appeal for the team will accomplish.

Dan

 

[bridgediver]

James:

Second, I would suggest sitting down and developing some training for the Volunteer Team. I am a member of a volunteer fire department team and we work very closely with a number of police departments, DA's office, Sheriff's Department to assist in the recovery of weapons. We have been trained that every scene is a crime scene until otherwise determined. We are aware of the safe handling, evidence preservation, protocols, and evidence control requirements. I would be very surprised that the volunteer team would shun training or the opportunity to get wet!!!!

Dan

Your whole post is nicely put Dan.

You don't need to be a cop to learn how to handle evidence properly

 

[Bowtie22]

I totally agree........ You don't need to be a cop to learn how to handle and collect evidence properly. However, when it comes to testifying in court it is a lot easier for the defense to discredit a volunteer with no law enforcement background than it is to discredit a sworn law enforcement officer. I have seen a few police agencies that have forensic divers and listening to their capabilities is absolutely mind blowing. There is nothing like having an expert witness on the stand.

I may have gotten a little sidetracked in my first post.......To me the evidence collection is only one aspect of what could be accomplished. As a patrol officer I have personally been the first to respond to the scene of drowning, missing children on boats, missing kids near lakes, (these are only the ones that involve water some of the calls we go on are just unexplainable).... On calls like these police are always dispatched to the scene and for the majority of the time it will take the rescue squad anywhere from 10-25 minutes to arrive depending on the time of day sometimes longer. Since we only have 1 dive team in the county it takes the a lot longer to arrive on the scene..... I have personally waited 45mins to 1.5hrs for them to show up on the scene. That is a HUGE time gap and a possible rescue has most likely become a recovery.

In this agency and most of our neighboring agencies are required to pass a water rescue course so we can save a drowning victim. Well if we are already getting wet swimming out to a drowning victim then let us go a little bit further a search for one on the bottom. On a water rescue I have no problem passing it over to the Dive Team or helping in their efforts after they arrive, but standing around taking witness information as there are civilians frantically swimming and searching for a loved one just doesn't make any since to me. Not to mention but it makes the agency look kind of bad too.

I am in no way trying to say that we don't need the volunteer Dive Team. There is no doubt a need for these guys and they will probably be better trained and equipped for a much broader range of rescue capabilities than simply diving to the bottom and pulling up something. I am just saying give the guys some training and let us help the public like we are supposed to be. Evidence collection is only a secondary benefit to having a team.

If we can get the administration to approve funding for such a team we will be golden. I think that it could make a big difference and make up for that time gap.

If anyone knows of any grants that would help get this kicked off please let me know. They Admin love to see grants that will make up the difference in funding.

 

[bridgediver]

However, when it comes to testifying in court it is a lot easier for the defense to discredit a volunteer with no law enforcement background than it is to discredit a sworn law enforcement officer. I have seen a few police agencies that have forensic divers and listening to their capabilities is absolutely mind blowing. There is nothing like having an expert witness on the stand.

I don't agree at all with this. A properly trained PSD in evidence handling is a diver witness. It makes no difference whether or not he's a cop or a florist. If he's properly trained and can show proper procedure it makes no difference.
I've spent my fair share of time in court as a witness and I haven't seen any sort of "discreditadation" because I'm not a cop! I do see regular occurances of the police mucking up their own evidence that we were trying to protect before they arrived!
I wouldn't be so quick to discount the volunteer that has already been doing the job of a PSD for a certain amount of time while your guys have no experience at all. In my mind (and the courts) the "expert" of the 2 would be the guy that has at least some experience over the guy with no experience.

Sorry if this comes across a little harsh but I got the impression that you already think you're better than the other team simply because of your proffession - perhaps you didn't mean it that way.

As far as PSD goes, you don't know what you don't know

 

[BladesRobinson]

Dive Rescue International provides training, equipment and technical support to public safety dive teams worldwide, since 1977. I would recommend that you call them toll free at 800-248-3483 and speak with Justin Fox. Ask Justin if he can put you in touch with Terry Trueblood (Illinois State Police), David Owens (Indianapolis Police Department) or Jeff Morgan (San Bernardino County Sheriffs Office). These three officers have considerable police diving experience and have assisted various agencies with challenges similar to yours.

Best of luck!

Blades Robinson

 

[BigJetDriver]

I don't agree at all with this. A properly trained PSD in evidence handling is a diver witness. It makes no difference whether or not he's a cop or a florist. If he's properly trained and can show proper procedure it makes no difference.
I've spent my fair share of time in court as a witness and I haven't seen any sort of "discreditation" because I'm not a cop! I do see regular occurances of the police mucking up their own evidence that we were trying to protect before they arrived!
I wouldn't be so quick to discount the volunteer that has already been doing the job of a PSD for a certain amount of time while your guys have no experience at all. In my mind (and the courts) the "expert" of the 2 would be the guy that has at least some experience over the guy with no experience.

Sorry if this comes across a little harsh but I got the impression that you already think you're better than the other team simply because of your profession - perhaps you didn't mean it that way.

As far as PSD goes, you don't know what you don't know.

Very well put! :luxhello:

In addition, 98% of recovery work is done over-all by, guess who? Volunteer teams!

 

[Bowtie22]

Thanks for the info Blades!


Okay.............everyone is entitled to their own opinions and not everyone is going to agree 100% of the time. I hear what you are saying. It is true most recoveries are done by volunteer PSD's......But, if there was no use for Police Dive Teams I guess that there wouldn't be any anywhere. However, there are Police agencies that have found a reason to employ a dive team, and from what I understand they are very useful.
For some reason or another a few people are taking offense to this thread. I am not putting down the capabilities of any professional or volunteer PSD. I am simply asking how a Police agency can start up a dive team. I am not running a campaign to overthrow or put the volunteer teams out of business. I would enjoy working hand and foot with them on missions and I feel that it is important to do so. In fact I think that a volunteer dive team and a police dive team could more than likely learn a lot from each other. (Can anyone disagree with that statement?)

Here is how I see it........correct me if I am wrong......there is a need for PSD's and there is also a need for Police Officers. Currently the PSD's in this area do 100% of rescues and recoveries......Currently in this area the Police respond to 100% of all major incidents and we are usually the very first ones to respond because we are already mobile (this includes industrial accidents, auto accidents, boating accidents, missing people, deaths, murders, rapes, HAZMAT's, etc.) It is safe to say that in this area a Police Officer will respond to everything that the volunteer dive team gets dispatched on. Now based off of my last statement I feel that there is clearly a need for a Police Dive team. I never said that the volunteer PSD's need to work at the local swimming pool and let the police do the work. We need to work together, and by doing so we can probably accomplish more!!! I am friends with a few of the guys on the volunteer team and I told them what I was trying to do and none of them flew off of the handle about it, in fact they agreed that it would be helpful.