Steel HP 23 vs Al 19 redundant air source

[Barnaby'sDad]

I am skeptical that one minute of gas will help. The question really is this: What problem(s) are we trying to solve with the pony? If the answer is that we need a the most reliable, redundant gas supply possible to deal with a wide range of possible problems e.g. entanglement, navigational confusion, crocodiles on the surface, 5 minutes of meditation to overcome panic, etc., then the solution is a twinset.

A pony is better understood as a backup air supply to protect against an equipment failure on the primary supply, period.

See the edit above (my previous post). I’m just making the point that while fiddling around for a full minute at depth in that scenario is not logical, I can foresee a scenario where it could happen.

I agree. If the limitations of your chosen cylinder size are not understood and the redundant air source is not used properly, you’re essentially lugging around an expensive paperweight.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

Here's my take: I never use redundant gas in recreational, open water, buddy diving, because I never allow myself to be in a situation where I don't have immediate access to either the surface and/or my buddy.

Great post. And depending on your situation the above quote makes a lot of sense. It does completely depend on your diving situation. I learned to dive with a pony specific after getting paired up with insta buddies on deeper ocean boat dives. That experience convinced me to depend on myself first and not necessarily count on a buddy. That prompted me to start diving with a pony (AL40) and shortly afterwards, get a solo certification (which requires a fully redundant gas supply).
Almost all of my typical dives now are deep and light tec/deco with my solid regular buddy or solo. When we occasionally (seldom) do a BM
"rec" dive, I'm fine doing so w/o a pony. But if I do ocean boat dives where I might get paired with an insta buddy, I consider it a solo dive.
I chose to sling an AL40 because
-it was slightly more volume than what I'd consider a minimum to make a safe, leisurely but under stress ascent from rec limit depth.
-I planned on going down the Tec route, and it would prove a lot more useful.
-It wanted full and easy access to the valve and regs.
After a few dives, I no longer even noticed it being there.
I pretty much dove that AL40 every dive until I transitioned to side mount.

 

[johndiver999]

The Op should calculate how much air they need to ascend from 60 feet. Then pick the lightest, easiest to carry and cheapest tank that works.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

The Op should calculate how much air they need to ascend from 60 feet. Then pick the lightest, easiest to carry and cheapest tank that works.

That's a very simplified recommendation, which isn't necessarily a bad approach...
I am interested as to why you recommend using 60 feet for the calculation. OP says he's diving to 90...?

 

[davehicks]

On the no-pony philosophy and relying on a buddy for gas in case of a failure:

I mostly dive in the Pacific Northwest and for many of the dives, probably 50-60% the visibility is 5 or 10 feet. It is VERY easy to become separated from a buddy. Even if not completely separated it may not be possible to get the attention of your buddy given limited visibility. So a pony bottle is a better buddy some of the time.

Given the realities of how many people dive even in the best of conditions, with insta-buddies, or low experienced buddies that may not be paying attention, or a camera buddy who is preoccupied, I still vote for a pony bottle when ever possible.

 

[apenland01]

That's a very simplified recommendation, which isn't necessarily a bad approach...
I am interested as to why you recommend using 60 feet for the calculation. OP says he's diving to 90...?

I specified never any deeper than 90' in my original post, but later said 60' because that is the most likely depth, as all the habitats I want to dive on are currently in 45-60' of water and the lake is at 89% full. It will most likely be 35-50' in a couple of months.

 

[johndiver999]

That's a very simplified recommendation, which isn't necessarily a bad approach...
I am interested as to why you recommend using 60 feet for the calculation. OP says he's diving to 90...?

I was mistaken in my reading, I thought the depth mentioned was 60. The calculation should be based on the maximum expected depth and throw in whatever assumptions they feel is appropriate.

 

[apenland01]

I wish I hadn't found Scubaboard until after I completed my pool work for my recertification and gotten a few dives under my belt to continue my excitement and enthusiasm.

I decided to get back into diving to relive the amazing times I experienced from 30 years ago. I'm now re-thinking that decision and may just abandon the idea and stick to my current hobbies of bass fishing and riding trails on my dirt bike. I almost have a feeling of dread right now when I think about diving, which is the opposite of what I had hoped I would experience. Maybe this is a sign I should pay attention to.

Finding myself becoming extremely defensive within a few replies of a post of what I thought was a legitimate and well thought out question regarding simple redundant air disturbs me.

I'm at the lake fishing for the weekend, so I need to take some time to reflect on what really brings me joy....

 

[broncobowsher]

I will admit I started blowing through most of the posts.

The steel 23 (3 liter filled 3442PSI) is a poor choice. The AL19 (also a 3 liter but only filled to 3000) is slightly better, but also a poor choice.

All the comments about an AL40 (or an AL30) sling mounted are so much better. Clipped off has so many advantages. You clearly see it is a separate system. It is so close to neutral you can had it off to someone else and not wreck your weighting. You can had it off and leave, they are not chained to a cylinder attached to your back. Getting on a boat you can unclip it and had it off. Either to crew or a line to be fished up after you board. This makes boarding much better and safer, less weight, less stress, less bulk. One of the biggest sources of injury (physical, exertion can trigger DCS) is climbing up a ladder. The less bulk in the way the better.

 

[2airishuman]

I wish I hadn't found Scubaboard until after I completed my pool work for my recertification and gotten a few dives under my belt to continue my excitement and enthusiasm[...]

Finding myself becoming extremely defensive within a few replies of a post of what I thought was a legitimate and well thought out question regarding simple redundant air disturbs me.

The solo diving section in the Advanced Scuba Discussions forum at Scubaboard is the wrong place to be if you want a positive, supportive, noncritical attitude towards your diving approach of choice. On the other hand it is a great place to be if you have chosen to dive alone and want to talk about your choices and how to stay alive while doing it.

I hope you will enjoy diving, and continue your participation here.