Suunto Eon Steel And Its Algorithm Lock Logic.

[DuboisP]

why are you OK with it locking you out after a safety violation? what if you have to get back in the water after an emergency for in water recompression? No reason a technical computer should ever lock a diver out, go to a real computer that won't lock you out under any circumstances... Better yet, for you, support a local Canadian business and buy a Shearwater....

if you have to get back in water after a safety violation, a computer will not help you.
you need a watch/gauge or a bottom timer and tables.

 

[DuboisP]

Comments such as it is "not a tech computer" or "buy a real computer" or " divers no knowing what they need to know" do not really contribute to a reasoned answer.

my 1st computer was a Mares M1 RGBM. I locked it once during training. But you can unlock it by resetting N². Just be careful on the next dive.
Then I purchased a second hand Suunto Vytec DS. I never locked it, even when deco diving up to 3 mixes.
I'm now using an OSTC MKII, and a Vyper Air as backup or gauge (Vytec DS dead).
The OSTC never locks, and I never locked the Vyper.

Suunto computers are safe and protect a lot of divers all around the world.
I have a lot of Suunto computers in my area and never heard one diver locked it, even when deco diving.
Just respect rules and safety.

My primary is a computer not locking, just warning, but it never warned about my stops.

 

[Pawlu]

Thanks for the feedback, if the lockout is truly there simply as a CYA move from Suunto's perspective than that is disappointing. If I do get any feedback from Suunto on this issue specifically with their technical diving computers I will update this post.

 

[rongoodman]

I am also interested and quite confident in the advances made in the RGBM algorithm especially the fused RGBM as found on the Eon Steel.

On what have you based this opinion? Since these algorithms are proprietary, nobody outside Suunto knows anything about their deco models or how effective the computers are in implementing the algorithms. The fact that they're marketing a "tech" computer which will turn itself into a depth gauge if you don't keep it happy should tell you all you need to know about the design decisions they have made.

 

[Pawlu]

I won't open that pandora's box as it is outside the scope of this post, other than there are two primary trains of thought when it comes to decompression algorithms, and neither are perfect as both are based on pure math which cannot be directly applied to human physiology, one day when we have technology that can actually detected microbubble formation and tissue pressures and adjust dive profiles based on these inputs, the debate will be settled once and for all

 

[rongoodman]

I won't open that pandora's box as it is outside the scope of this post, other than there are two primary trains of thought when it comes to decompression algorithms, and neither are perfect as both are based on pure math which cannot be directly applied to human physiology, one day when we have technology that can actually detected microbubble formation and tissue pressures and adjust dive profiles based on these inputs, the debate will be settled once and for all

I understand what deco models are. None of us can know what Suunto's deco models are, because they don't disclose them. My reasoned answer is to decide what algorithm you want to use and then buy computer which implements it. If you haven't read it already, Deco for Divers is a good place to start.

 

[rongoodman]

If you decide you want to go with RGBM, there is a full implementation of it available as an add-on for the Liquivision Xeo, without the limitations added by Suunto.

 

[Diving Dubai]

My first caveat here is that I don't consider myself a Deco algorithm expert. Nor do I consider myself a technical diver, although I am qualified and engage in planned single tank deco dives using Accelerated deco procedures, I don't dive much below the 40m mark.

So that aside, I do have a above average (I hope) understanding of my computer - especially with being able to change the conservatism of the computer. (bear with me here)

So the Eon steel has 5 levels form +2 (most conservative) to -2 (the most aggressive) The manual does have guideline of who should dive which setting and when.

According to the guidelines I qualify to dive the most aggressive, but that doesn't mean I do all the time, indeed because I dive warm water reefs I generally am not hitting and NDl. I make a judgement though on each dive. perhaps I'm tired, a bit dehydrated or I know a particular dive has a lot of high currents that may require a higher workload. Then I'll increase the conservatism.

I say this because I was following the Perdix NDL thread. And it became apparent that perhaps a great many people didn't truly understand the GF settings. I would summise that only a small proportion of those who put their computer into tech mode actually fully understand the settings lets say for arguments sake 25%. I would further suggest that a good proportion of those persons have a few favorite GF settings they regularly use. So the ability to infinitely change the settings is lost on the majority?

As I understand it you need to accept a disclaimer of some description before going from OC to Tech settings - but in a society where some can successfully sue for spilling coffee on themselves because the liquid was hot and they were't properly warned - I do wonder.

So perhaps Suunto have decided to put this restriction on rather than allowing people the option of choosing an unrestricted algorithm if you like for their protection

Okay some will argue it's not a technical computer - I might agree, however by definition (even though I don't consider myself a technical diver) because I dive below 40m - the recommended Rec limit and because I engage in dives that I don't have direct access to the surface (deco ceiling) actually I do engage in technical diving where the computer performs without a problem.

Yes it has a trimix setting - as I understand GUE recommend or insist on trimix below 30m? Although they don't rely on computers?

If I were engaged in "proper tech diving" yes the shearwater may be a better option as it is for others. Although I believe that most people own one just because it's shearwater

 

[Imla]

Yes, GUE prefers trimix below 30. However from what I gather on the discussion, one of the challenges of deco diving can be the need to get up at a different profile than first anticipated. (Or even faster than preferred, but still safe)
I can give one example. Doing a dive to 60m at the wreck of Balder in Åland (cold water, drysuitland, always 4C at bottom), we had racked up about an hours worth of deco. On the ascent, at about 56m my drysuit floods. Not completely at first, but for every meter of ascent, more and more cold water enters the suit.
The fastest ascent is up to the gas change at 21m. Doesn't take a lot of time, but still... it is COLD. Knowing that the water was a toasty warm 15c at 15m and 19c at 6m, the smart choice would be to skip deco stops at the deeper portions, and pad stops at the shallower portions where the water was of a comfortable temperature.
In this example, the EON would have shut you out.
I was diving a GUE-team, so wasn't relying on a computer, but I still had my Petrel in trimix modus (It offers more options to review the dive after if in mix rather than gauge modus) My Petrel followed our ascent. It got slightly indignated that we skipped 21 and 18m stops and went straight to 15, but happily recalculated.

I can promise you... doing deco stops with a flooded suit just to keep the computer happy wouldn't have been an option.

 

[DuboisP]

So the Eon steel has 5 levels form +2 (most conservative) to -2 (the most aggressive) The manual does have guideline of who should dive which setting and when.

if i remember correctly, Suunto -2, aggressive, looks like VPM+4, the very conservative option.