TDI changing deco procedures course

[laurin]

It's not solely a matter of poor buoyancy control. It is a training environment where students are adding additional stresses and task loading. You're definition of 'safe' by reducing an individual's perceived narcotic effect seems trumped by my assumption that they could conceivably bend themselves easier than if they were on air. Just my opinion of course.

I don't think it's common practice under any agency to throw stressful or particularly task-loading scenarios on students with deco obligation - at least on the starting level.

Dives involving complex drills etc are done shallow with simulated deco - with the added benefit of much more bottom time and possibility to repeat dives. "Experience dives" should get done when the students are at a level that they can be done safely.

I also believe that the course is meant to evaluate the student's ability to cope at a marginal depth as well on air. No one promoted deep air dives but it is nice to understand what it is you are actually trying to prevent.

I don't see the point of this... Most people that dive at deco-class-taking-level should notice the difference between proper trimix and air/nitrox already around 30m.

Are there any training agencies that you are aware of that promote trimix before DP or combined as a course?

GUE springs first to mind, UTD too, although I'm only familiar with their web presence. IANTD has recently started promoting this too with adv rec trimix.

//LN

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

GUE Tech 1 includes normoxic trimix as well as accelerated deco on rich nitrox mixes.

I'm to assume that GUE Tech 1 is the first introduction to decompression procedures as well?

 

[rongoodman]

I'd say that much of the skills groundwork is laid in Fundies, but Ratio Deco is introduced in Tech 1 too.

 

[limeyx]

GUE Tech 1 includes normoxic trimix as well as accelerated deco on rich nitrox mixes.

UTD also

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I don't think it's common practice under any agency to throw stressful or particularly task-loading scenarios on students with deco obligation - at least on the starting level.

Putting a new student in a soft overhead regardless of his skill set will more than likely qualify as stressful.

Dives involving complex drills etc are done shallow with simulated deco - with the added benefit of much more bottom time and possibility to repeat dives. "Experience dives" should get done when the students are at a level that they can be done safely.

I agree, and I would assume this is why we see trimix and adv trimix as the apex of training and not as intro level classes.

I don't see the point of this... Most people that dive at deco-class-taking-level should notice the difference between proper trimix and air/nitrox already around 30m.

The point was discussed earlier, it involved cost of fills and availability. Some folks won't turn the dive because it violates their personal END. Of course we get referred to as strokes by certain individuals

GUE springs first to mind, UTD too, although I'm only familiar with their web presence. IANTD has recently started promoting this too with adv rec trimix.

//LN

I do in fact see your point, but I do not foresee the industry dropping air as a primary breathing medium for such shallow dives. Time will tell I'm sure.

 

[Blackwood]

It's not solely a matter of poor buoyancy control. It is a training environment where students are adding additional stresses and task loading. You're definition of 'safe' by reducing an individual's perceived narcotic effect seems trumped by my assumption that they could conceivably bend themselves easier than if they were on air. Just my opinion of course.

Unstated above, I'm not sure I buy that helium will bend you more easily. Yes, it's less dense, but it's also way less soluble.

 

[ianr33]

What's a "degree Kelvin"?

edit or Kalvin for that matter.

Most excellent points.

And while we are off the subject what are "Vander Walls" forces ?

This thread gets a C- in Basic Chemistry

Its Van der Waals Van der Waals force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Unstated above, I'm not sure I buy that helium will bend you more easily. Yes, it's less dense, but it's also way less soluble.

How much soluble gas moving out of solution do you suppose it takes to creat a concern for bubbles? I don't think it's a matter how much, more a question of how quickly it is absorbed or released. Keep in mind I'm certainly not a subject matter expert

Just curious.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

This is why I went into Science and not English.

Most excellent points.

And while we are off the subject what are "Vander Walls" forces ?

This thread gets a C- in Basic Chemistry

Its Van der Waals Van der Waals force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Blackwood]

How much soluble gas moving out of solution do you suppose it takes to creat a concern for bubbles? I don't think it's a matter how much, more a question of how quickly it is absorbed or released. Keep in mind I'm certainly not a subject matter expert

Just curious.

Some models penalize you for using helium (due to density), others credit you (due to insolubility).