Teaching LD - Autism

[boulderjohn]

... but I iterated that I won't rush safety, and if he was not comfortable with my approach, he is certainly free to talk to others.

Bob, I have lots of notes on these young men and their styles - ...

And if he does talk to others, the odds are it will be us, and if he decides to go with us, there is a good chance it will be I who will be asked to do it. Whether it is I or not, I would appreciate those notes!

 

[teriandcompany]

And if he does talk to others, the odds are it will be us, and if he decides to go with us, there is a good chance it will be I who will be asked to do it. Whether it is I or not, I would appreciate those notes!

John,
They actually did come to you guys first , then to us (I've been busy this last week, but planned to drop over and see you guys) - I'll share the story with you when I get back - getting on a plane to the Bahamas right after I finish this cup of coffee, so for the next week, it's on a back burner.

 

[tracydr]

Physician clearance, in my mind, means no physical issues (heart, lung, etc) to preclude diving. Count in the fact that most physical clearances come from a non-diving doctor, possibly in an urgent care setting, no prior medical records, parents not fully disclosing anything and that little signature is not worth much. (this is from my medical, urgent care experience)
I discussed this with my husband and we both felt uncomfortable even diving as a buddy to an autistic diver. Teaching one or two to go off on their own buddied with a newly certified parent, licensed to dive anytime, anywhere?
Sounds like a recipe for a serious disaster. Not so much during class but in those first 25-50 dives they do together.
My experience doing a physical exam or treatment on autistic children tells me that at least moderate to severe autism causes hyper reactivity to new or increased stimuli. How can that be safe 100 feet underwater with stimuli bombarding all senses simultaneously?

 

[herbdb]

I have a 22 year old son diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. He is high functioning, but had a lot of difficulty in the classroom and has a lot of anxiety in new situations, particularly social. His lack of social skills will keep him handicapped for life in spite of all of the specialized schooling and training.

We discussed diving training with his psychiatrist and family doctor and they agreed that it was within his capabilities if he wanted to do it. He was nineteen years old at the time.

We disclosed all of this to the dive shop and the two off us checked out together. I studied with him and worked to make sure he understood and was not parroting back the information. He was able to take the test unaided. My biggest concern was that he would be apprehensive in spite of his desire to dive. I could not have been more wrong. Here is a picture of him on his first pool dive, reg out of his mouth with a great smile on his face.

He went on to finish his OW qualification without any problems. He now has 50+ dives including a trip to the Bahamas, Cozumel and two trips to the Keys. I have recently contacted an instructor to get his AOW qualification.

Autism is a spectrum disorder and I commend the instructors who will work with those who suffer from it. All of them will not be capable of being a competent diver, but some can and will. I am please that my son is such a competent avid diver.

Working with divers with disabilities takes a special skill as an instructor and I thank all who have the talent and make the effort.

 

[humanbeing]

I have great faith in the sea as a teacher. If these divers can ever get into the ocean, they will learn (or not).

 

[humanbeing]

Physician clearance, in my mind, means no physical issues (heart, lung, etc) to preclude diving. Count in the fact that most physical clearances come from a non-diving doctor, possibly in an urgent care setting, no prior medical records, parents not fully disclosing anything and that little signature is not worth much. (this is from my medical, urgent care experience)
I discussed this with my husband and we both felt uncomfortable even diving as a buddy to an autistic diver. Teaching one or two to go off on their own buddied with a newly certified parent, licensed to dive anytime, anywhere?
Sounds like a recipe for a serious disaster. Not so much during class but in those first 25-50 dives they do together.
My experience doing a physical exam or treatment on autistic children tells me that at least moderate to severe autism causes hyper reactivity to new or increased stimuli. How can that be safe 100 feet underwater with stimuli bombarding all senses simultaneously?

You can't predict this. There's too much variation among autistic people. I dove with someone who I think is autistic, several times, in fact. We had fun, and there weren't any problems.

 

[humanbeing]

You can't predict this. There's too much variation among autistic people. I dove with someone who I think is autistic, several times, in fact. We had fun, and there weren't any problems.

I mean that I dove with him several times. Not that he's autistic several times. I think that's a one-off deal :biggrin: .

 

[emilyrose]

On which of the items on the medical form would one write "Yes" to indicate autism?

The closest one is

Behavioral health, mental or psychological problems (Panic attack, fear of closed or open spaces)?

I would argue that autism is not contained in that category.

I would argue that it is, although not explicitly enough to justify something like ejecting them from the course without refund for not disclosing on the form. I also do think there's some grey area with these things, and I don't see any reason that people who are sufficiently high functioning that it definitely won't interfere with their ability to succeed in a normal course without any accommodations would need to disclose. It's pretty clear though that panic attacks, claustrophobia, and agoraphobia are simply examples, and not the only behavioral, mental, or psychological problems that are included in the questions, and autism definitely falls within the scope of "behavior health, mental or psychological problems."

When I filled out the paper work for my open water course, I actually did answer "yes" to that question for myself. I have a long-standing diagnosis of dyslexia, which now manifests primarily as a very slow reading rate (I had trouble learning to read as a child, but eventually caught up reasonably well except that I still read extremely slowly), and since that does effect my ability to successfully complete tasks requiring significant reading within a short time, and the open water course involves textbook/classroom instruction and a written test, I disclosed for this just like I do for my classes at school. I also have ADHD, which also effects my classroom work, but I also consider it relevant to diving because diving does require reliably attending to important safety cues and such, and becoming too distracted, or, probably even worse, hyperfocusing on something irrelevant (e.g. becoming completely absorbed in staring at particular piece of seaweed for half an hour) could be a significant danger. I also have significant social anxiety, and actually debated whether I should dive at all because I was concerned that it would interfere with my ability to ask for help if I needed it (not an irrational fear given my history with that), although I ultimately determined that as long as I don't go on any dive trips where I don't know anyone in advance (in that situation, I'd probably end up diving with a buddy rather than asking anyone if I could dive with them) it doesn't interfere with actually diving, only with my ability to find people to dive with, and consequently to dive more often.

Since I did disclose that information on the medical forms, I then discussed it with my instructor, and we decided that nothing in my psychiatric history would be a problem for my learning to dive. In this particular instance, we decided that it made sense for me to simply change my answer on the form rather than being evaluated by a physician (this isn't something I'd generally recommend, but because it was a psychiatric rather than medical issue, and as a clinical psychologist familiar with my history my mom was more qualified than any physician to clear me to dive in this instance), but the important thing is that I did talk to the instructor about it up front, and made sure that if there were any accommodations I'd need, even if it was as trivial as extra time on the written test, we'd have arranged it in advance and it wouldn't cause any problems for the course.

I also think that whether or not it's on the form, it's still the responsibility of the parent and/or student to disclose these things and discuss appropriate accommodations. I've always be able to do well in mainstream classrooms, but because of my dyslexia and ADHD I'm entitled to some accommodations, which include extra time on exams and papers. When I was younger, it was my parents' responsibility to inform the school about my needs and initiate whatever needed to happen with that, and as an adult, it's my responsibility to talk to my professors about it at the beginning of the semester, at least a few weeks before I have a paper or exam for which I'll need extra time. If I were to just show up to an exam and ask for extra time, on the spot without any advance notice, I can be fairly certain that they'd refuse (possibly with one or two exceptions, who would just be very disappointed in me for handling it so poorly). And if I did that, and failed the class as a result, that would be entirely my own fault.

It's just not appropriate to ask for accommodations at the last minute, or not to ask for them at all when you know full well that you or your child needs them, and considering that these boys are struggling with the regular class enough to be considering options like HSA, it's unlikely that they were even in mainstream classes in school and they almost certainly at least had some form of IEP, so there's just no way that the dad hasn't been dealing with this for years, probably at least close to two decades or longer, and I can't imagine how he could have thought it would be okay to just stick them in a regular class and not even discuss it with the instructor in advance.

 

[teriandcompany]

All, I'm catching up and haven't read everything, but I do appreciate the input.

I did, in fact, work with them in the pool and classroom, however, it was not in a setting with others. After discussion (which should have happened prior to even enrolling, but I digress), we set up continuing private work, both in the pool and classroom.

With time, patience and practice, they did complete the bookwork (and quite well). It was turned from the self-study path into more of the "old-fashioned" slides and presentation format, but it was more suitable for this situation. They also were able to complete the pool skills. This took quite a few pool sessions (and yes, it did increase the cost substantially), but I also sent them home with "homework" to practice the skills and signals until memorized. There is no reason you have to be in the water hooked to a tank to practice many of them. This repetition helped a lot, and they performed well in the water. It was great seeing that "light bulb" go off as with all divers when they discover they can do it. In fact, by the time they were done, I think their self-confidence in the water exceeded dads.

While they have completed this portion, I still believe (if I was the instructor doing their open water) that I would suggest thinking about a Scuba Diver cert first (of course, assuming they complete the first two OW dives) just to encourage continued practice and safety. I know when my son was first certified, I was nervous with/for him, and I was an experienced diver. I can't imagine being an inexperienced parent diving with a child (or partner - of any age) (much less, someone that may need extra attention). I've had these discussions with them, but ultimately that will be something they can discuss with whomever they decide to do OW with on their trip (if they do - still an uncertainty due to $)

Off to work, I'll catch up the rest later! thanks!