Tech fin options - neutral buoyancy?

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Late to this discussion, but for what it's worth, when Deep6 says their Eddy Fin is very slightly negatively buoyant in fresh water, they are telling the truth. They are less negatively buoyant than my Mares Avantiquattro+ fins. I think if you removed the metal spring strap they would float in fresh water. It takes a bit for them to sink.

Better yet, they make frog and reverse kicking a snap.

I have no association with Deep6
 
The verdict is in.

@cerich sent me a pair of Deep6 Eddy fins to try. The deal is, I try them and post up a review similar to the review I posted earlier in this thread. When I'm done, I send them back. What he gets? A review posted from an independent reviewer with no affiliation or axe to grind. What I get? A chance to try his fins without having to actually buy a pair.

The verdict (short version): cerich is not getting his fins back. After I post this, I will be sending him a message to figure out how he wants me to pay him for them (i.e. PayPal, check, or credit card). As well, I let 2 other people try them. The instructor candidate that loaned me his Hollis F1 LT fins to try a few weeks ago, and one of my shop's owners, who loaned me the Dive Rite XT and OMS Slipstream fins that I tried before. The F1 LT owner wanted to know how much they cost (I told him), and where to order himself a pair. My shop owner/boss tried the Eddy fins while I was swimming around with my F1 LT fins. He was waiting for me on the surface when I came up and simply said "you just lost a pair of fins." He did actually give them back, but he wants to get a pair now, too.

The long version:

2 weeks ago, after I tried the F1 LT, XT, and Slipstreams, I bought myself a pair of the F1 LTs. As shop staff, I got a discount, but I still shelled out my own pesos to get them. However, I still wanted to try out the Eddy fins, just to, well, *know*.

I was in the quarry for 2 dives yesterday, the quarry for 1 dive today, and then I went straight over to the pool for some somewhat-more-objective comparison testing. Yesterday, I dived the F1 LT fins for the first dive and the Eddy fins for the second. Today, I used the Eddy fins for the quarry dive and then switched back and forth between the 2 pairs several times in the pool.

I weighed both pairs in the quarry. The F1 LTs were 1.0# negative in the quarry - the same as they clocked when I weighed them in the pool a few weeks ago. The Eddys were hard to weigh, so I will guess that they are about 0.15 - 0.2 # negative. If I put one in the water, it would turn tip up and then slowly sink. They were hard to weigh simply because the strap attached to my luggage scale was not long enough. The only place I could attach it to the fin is the spring strap. Then, it would only let the spring strap hang down 3 or 4 inches under the water. Like that, the blade part was positively buoyant and part of it would be floating out of the water. Like that, it showed 0.28# negative buoyancy. Since that weight includes holding a little of the fin up out of the water, I reckon with a strap long enough to let the whole fin submerge, it would have been a bit less. Still well less negative than the F1 LTs, or the Dive Rite XT, OMS Slipstream, or Atomic Blade fins, all of which were 0.4# negative except for the F1 LTs.

For completeness, these are the dry weights as well:

Hollis F1 LT, size Regular: 6.7#
Deep6 Gear Eddy, size Large: 4.5#
Hollis F1 (non-LT), size Extra Large: 7.8# (just throwing that in since I have them sitting right here - my drysuit fins)

Now that I just weighed them dry, I am not at all surprised at the results. It totally jibes with how they felt on my feet. They are SO light! And a lot of that weight is in the spring strap end, so in the water, it feels like you don't have anything on. My shop owner said, "it took a minute to get used to. It felt like I didn't have anything on. I was like how can I swim with no fins on?!"

Which brings me to the foot pocket. I couldn't feel it - in the best possible way. I felt no pressure points to create hot spots. I did not feel my toes touching the end of the foot pocket. And I never felt my foot move around inside the foot pocket at all. Once they were on, instead of feeling like I had fins on, it just felt like my feet had morphed into big ole duck feet. In contrast, the F1 LT foot pocket is very comfortable. But, when I twist my feet, as in part of a frog kick stroke, I can feel just a little bit of side to side play in the toe box area. It's very minor and doesn't bother me even a little bit. But, the completely snug feeling, with no play anywhere was noticeable.

The Eddy foot pocket and the Dive Rite XT foot pocket were equal in comfort, to me. The difference in feeling between those two is all about the blade. The XT feels long and really stiff in the water and like it has a bit more weight to it than the Eddy. Every foot movement has a distinct feeling of work to it. In contrast, the Eddy foot pocket was equally comfortable, but they are shorter and a little bit less stiff (in feeling, anyway) and they are so light it never felt like work to move the fin around unless I was actually trying to work - i.e. kicking to go somewhere.

The Eddy fin feels stiffer to me (when I kick) than the F1 LT - but not a lot stiffer. It's definitely a different feel - like the stiffness is in a different place in the fin. But, the Eddy does not have nearly the feeling of stiffness that the XTs had.

Comparing frog kicks, I felt like the Eddy had a slight advantage over the F1 LT. But, it was close enough that I wouldn't choose either fin over the other based on that. Ditto for scissor or flutter kicks. My shop owner has not tried the F1 LTs. That was surprising to me, but he said he has tried the regular F1s and they hurt his feet, so he just hasn't wanted to try the LT version, since it looks about the same. I think he said the F1 gives him foot cramps. Anyway, he said he felt like the Eddy fin was not as strong on scissor kicks as the Dive Rite XTs he had just taken off. But, he said the Eddy was so strong on frog kicks that he could go just as fast like that anyway.

My primary motivation for starting the hunt for new fins was wanting a better back kick. In that regard, I have to say the F1 LT is still the winner. I switched back and forth in the pool today. I tried the LTs 3 times and the Eddys 2 times. I am consistently able to simply swim backwards with the LTs. I swam backwards a good one third of the width of the pool - call it 10 yards - with the LTs and it was actually a kick and glide that seemed to be not AS fast as going forward with a frog kick, but I'd say at least half as fast. I would give myself a fighting chance of racing some of our open water students, with me going backwards.

With the Eddys, I just could not muster the same consistent thrust in reverse. They had a totally different feel than the Dive Rite XTs, but I'd say my overall progress in reverse was about equal between the XTs and the Eddys. They Eddys gave me a little more consistency on actually going backwards on almost every stroke, but I think the XTs gave me a little bit more thrust on the times when I hit the technique just right.

Though I just bought a set of the F1 LTs, I am still going to buy a set of the Eddy fins, and here is why: They feel so light on my feet! They were the best FEELING fins I have tried. I feel like I would be kicking myself (LOL) down the road to not jump on the opportunity to have the best feeling fins I have tried. When I am working for my shop (i.e. working with classes and maybe leading trips), I will continue to wear the LTs. The shop sells them and, just as importantly to me, I can back kick in them the best and I feel like that is a very, very useful ability to have when working with students. But, when I am diving in a wetsuit and it's just a "fun" dive, where I don't mind sacrificing a little bit of ability on back finning to have that perfect fit and light feeling, then I will use the Eddy fins. Plus, the 1 # of difference in buoyancy does make a difference, I think. I was in sidemount with steel tanks during all of this fin testing and my SM rig does have a little bit of a tendency to have me slightly head-up. I think the Eddy fins will be a little bit better for my trim, at least in SM.

So, there you have it. A clear winner: Me. :D

Here are some pictures, to compare fin lengths. Eddy, size L, F1 LT, size Regular (the grey fin), and F1, size Extra Large. In all pictures, both of my feet are backed up against a door, to ensure a valid comparison of length.

2017-09-10 19.45.08.jpg 2017-09-10 19.46.09.jpg 2017-09-10 19.46.56.jpg
 
Late to this discussion, but for what it's worth, when Deep6 says their Eddy Fin is very slightly negatively buoyant in fresh water, they are telling the truth. They are less negatively buoyant than my Mares Avantiquattro+ fins. I think if you removed the metal spring strap they would float in fresh water. It takes a bit for them to sink.

Better yet, they make frog and reverse kicking a snap.

I have no association with Deep6

I totally agree.
 
Out of that list, I would go with Slipstreams. They seem to be the jet fin design (which is tried and proven) in neutral compound material. Btw, I have used jets and Hollis in wetsuit and did not notice much of a difference.

Atomic blades would be nearly impossible to back kick in.
 
Th
Out of that list, I would go with Slipstreams. They seem to be the jet fin design (which is tried and proven) in neutral compound material. Btw, I have used jets and Hollis in wetsuit and did not notice much of a difference.

Atomic blades would be nearly impossible to back kick in.

The OMS are 0.4# negative. The Deep6 fins are much closer to neutral, are also a Jet style of fin, and the foot pocket on the Eddy feels MUCH better to me than the OMS foot pocket.
 
Th


The OMS are 0.4# negative. The Deep6 fins are much closer to neutral, are also a Jet style of fin, and the foot pocket on the Eddy feels MUCH better to me than the OMS foot pocket.

If Eddy is an option then I would go for Eddy over all else. Since LDS does not carry it, I was inclined towards Slips over the other options. I am curious about the shorter Hollis ones.
 
Late to this discussion, but for what it's worth, when Deep6 says their Eddy Fin is very slightly negatively buoyant in fresh water, they are telling the truth. They are less negatively buoyant than my Mares Avantiquattro+ fins. I think if you removed the metal spring strap they would float in fresh water. It takes a bit for them to sink.

Better yet, they make frog and reverse kicking a snap.

I have no association with Deep6
they would, the specific gravity of the fin material is .9
 
I just thought I should mention, if anyone is local to the Boston area I have a set of Deep Six Eddy Fins (Large) and (Extra Large) that I'd be wiling to lend out (provided you give them back :) if someone wants to try before you buy.

You can shoot me a PM on here and I'll get in touch with you.
 
If Eddy is an option then I would go for Eddy over all else. Since LDS does not carry it, I was inclined towards Slips over the other options. I am curious about the shorter Hollis ones.

You're welcome to try my Hollis or the Deep6 any time... ☺️
 
Sadly, I am going to have to retire my Eddy's for everything but pleasure diving. As I am DMing for my local shop now, I can not wear my Eddys and it literally breaks my heart. I have XTs that I normally wear while cave diving that I could wear but I don't want to subject them to the pool environment. So thanks to @stuartv it looks like I will be looking at a set of LTs as we carry Hollis. I could sit motionless in our pool with the Eddys on and then the other day I used my SEAC GP100s (a bit negative) and I was sculling my feet the whole time and when I would demo a skill I looked like a spaz.
 

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