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TecRec Full Cave course

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by Efka76, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Efka76

    Efka76 Barracuda

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
    Few days ago I was browsing Facebook and encountered PADI's post where one person boasted that he completed TecRec Intro to cave and Full cave courses. I was extremely surprised as I did not see in PADI nor TecRec curriculum such courses..... only PADI Cavern specialty, which is a part of Adventure dives syllabus.

    When I asked a question how it is possible, answer was that this it is possible to issue Intro to Cave and Full Cave specialty cards under TecRec name as these are distinctive specialties. Below I provide official (Facebook) PADI explanation:

    "Hi XXXX, a distinctive specialty is an “instructor authored” course and can be either recreational or TecRec. These are not used for Adventure Dives (allowed Adventure Dives are listed in the Instructor Manual). TecRec Distinctive Specialties have strict guidelines to ensure that they have consistent content and are recognised globally, this is particularly important for Cave Diver. The Cave Diver Distinctive Specialty structure and content was developed by experienced cave instructors and reviewed by prominent members of the cave training community. PADI works with the cave community to monitor changes to techniques and practices and implement these when beneficial".

    Now we have situation when someone decides to teach Full cave course, develops program (or maybe copies from TDI, GUE, NSS or other organization with some personal instructor flavor), PADI "specialists" in cave diving (sounds like a joke to me) approves it and we have a happy instructor who can "cook" Full cave TecRec cards. It is interesting whether it shows PADI/TecRec intention to go into cave diving area or just wish to have more cave divers that are associated with PADI name.

    When I told this story to my cave diver friends they initially thought that this is a joke and I was told that no reputable cave divers / diver centers recognize such TecRec Full cave cards.

    It would be interesting to hear professional cave divers' opinion on such matter.
  2. Pullnglide

    Pullnglide Dive Shop

    I believe PADI had a full cave course at 1 time. I think there are some PADI cave instructors on this forum and CDF. Jim Wyatt is the only one that comes to mind off hand (sorry if I’m mistaken Jim). In order to be a PADI cave instructor someone would have to already be an instructor with another agency offering that course and that person being certified to teach it. Someone please correct me if I’m misinformed. Thanks.[/USER]
  3. almostDIR

    almostDIR Barracuda

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Finland
    they also mention it on their webpage.
    Teaching TecRec Instructor Overview | PADI

    it would be interesting to see the training materials. It definitely sounds like a course where one instructor just stitches up some training material he likes and then gets it approved and starts to teach cave diving. Maybe if the person is very good cave diver himself then it could work but the quality standards can be anything :shocked:

    maybe it is targeted to some recreational instructors who would otherwise wander in the caves without any cave training at all?

    Attached Files:

  4. Jack Hammer

    Jack Hammer Solo Diver

    @Capt Jim Wyatt is a PADI cave instructor. He could, and has, explain it better
  5. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    You cannot just write a distinctive specialty and get PADI's name on it. It has to be approved by the organization, and they will not approve a course that could potentially be challenged in court following an incident.

    The PADI TecRec cave program was written by Jim Wyatt and a couple other veteran cave instructors. It closely follows the NSS-CDS curriculum, and Jim Wyatt was the Director of Training for NSS-CDS while writing the curriculum. The qualifications for teaching the course are part of the program, and they closely follow NSS-CDS requirements as well.
  6. Capt Jim Wyatt

    Capt Jim Wyatt Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop Staff Member

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Key Largo
    Circa 1976 Rory Dickens, Sheck Exley & I put together a cave program for PADI and it lasted a few years. As I recall it got dumped when instructors were required to buy liability insurance and the carrier would not cover it.

    Fast forward to circa 2010 ---> Harry Averill and Jeff Loflin wrote a new PADI distinctive specialty cave course for PADI. It was and still is as good of a curriculum as I have ever seen, bar none.

    Jeff and Harry were part of the NSS-CDS training committee and Harry served a short time as training director.

    Harry & Jeff allowed some of us to use it and they based that use on whoever they thought was competent as a cave instructor. All those who used their outline were already cave instructors with some agency such as IANTD, NACD or NSS-CDS.
    Pullnglide likes this.
  7. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: United States
    Not gonna lie, I'd kinda like a PADI Cave card with @Capt Jim Wyatt 's name on it just to screw with people. Or a PADI Cave CCR card to take to Ginnie.
  8. Vicko

    Vicko Barracuda

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Komizža, Croatia
    All the TecRec curriculum that I have seen so far looks good, why do you think their Cave would be problematic?
  9. Miyaru

    Miyaru Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: EU
    Cave instructors from other agencies wouldn't like to see that happen. Compared to the recreational market, cave diving is just a very small part. If PADI would take a part of that, it means less students for the existing (other agency) instructors.
  10. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: United States
    In the US and Mexico, a pretty substantial number of cave instructors also happen to have been (some may even still be current) PADI instructors as well. It wouldn't take much for them to re-up and start teaching PADI Cave.

    Now that being said, I have personal opinions on PADI instructor and course standards that would preclude me from supporting a jump into that arena. However, I'm not sure the argument that other instructors would be upset, at least in the western hemisphere.

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