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Thankfully, all four divers came back out of the hole ...

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba' started by highdesert, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. jeckyll

    jeckyll Solo Diver

    2,279
    1
    From the original post
    "The dive guide headed toward the low point in the rear of the cavern, and right above the floor there was a hole in the back wall, about three feet in diameter, that led to ... well, I have no clue what it led to"

    So, if someone had had a first stage failure, or an OOA, how would they have gotten out? Were they trained to exit single file & had the requisite equipment? And this was at the back of the cavern with OW divers?

    I've never dove anywhere besides the cold, dark and often low vis waters of the PNW, but I'm pretty sure I can't breath the water even where it's clear and 'friendly looking'.

    This seems like such a no brainer to me personally, I don't understand why this requires discussion. IMO the divers had no reason to go there. DM or no DM.

    Just my $0.02

    :)
     
  2. ScubaSteve

    ScubaSteve Wow.....what a DB

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Acton, Ontario
    23,370
    4,416

    I only quoted this post because of the link and nothing to do with the poster. If you read the linked you know which side I take. SOME DM's are beyond irresponsible and SOME divers are beyond irresponsible but both share the responsibility (I know some disagree and it was close....I almost cared). I personally think one of those two categories SHOULD assume more of the responsibilty when the diver is new but rather than argue it again here I will not say so. I will say that it is nice to know that so many DM's are willing to dive for themselves only and not worry about the people following them. In this thread's example, if each diver had realized that that cave was beyond their training level as OW divers, then the DM would have gone in and had a nice liesurely dive on his own. Absolutely useless and should be used as chum rather than collecting money for services "NOT rendered".
     
  3. Michael Schlink

    Michael Schlink Instructor, Scuba

    880
    1
    I think it better to tell new and/or inexperienced divers "don't go into OH's" and "don't follow DM/guides blindly" rather than tell them it's their life and they can do what they want with it.
    Sure we're all able to make our own decisions and should have to be responsible for our decisions but the real world doesn't work that way. In diving as with other "hobbies" "sports" "interests" there are rules, they are there for a reason and shouldn't be ignored or broken.
    There are quite a few of us that will stop a diver from entering a cave, like it or not, if they don't belong in it. We can have as spirited a conversation as anyone wants by the picnic table, but I'll go for the knock down drag out, before a body recovery..........
    And you guys can call a swim through anything you want, but if I can't see the end and two divers can't share air w/o a long hose, it looks a lot like a cave to me.
     
  4. MauiScubaSteve

    MauiScubaSteve Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Olowalu, Maui
    4,766
    191
    Everybody is different!!! Hardly anybody would argue with that and yet some people want to treat everybody the same???

    I did my final 2 open water checkout dives at Tunnels Beach, on Kauai's North Shore. There are hundreds of overheads within shore dive range; swim throughs, lava tubes, caverns and caves. My fellow students were also my free dive buddies, with whom I had spent about a hundred days free diving said overheads the previous year and a half. If we only made 15 free dives per visit, that would be well over a thousand dives under those rocks, before certification.

    On logged dive #6 we passed gear through a restriction to do a passage we had all done numerous times without tanks. Isn't that why we trained to take the gear off and put it back on underwater? Logged dive #7 was a couple hours later, just the main caverns and lava tubes we had been through hundreds of times, but this time at night. Our instructor knew our free dive past, he knew we would go under the rock right away, but when he heard about those dives his only response was "I wish I had been there!"

    My first certifications were completed at Sharks Cove, on Oahu's North Shore. Like Tunnels, when you finish your dive you will probably interact with lots of certified divers that were just in the overheads. Unless my students were on the morning plane home, I assumed they would seriously consider going under the rock the next day. If they lived on the Island I knew they would be under there the next dive. Would I have been a responsible professional if I just said "don't go into OH's"?

    We have all seen the success of telling kids don't drink alcohol, don't smoke pot, don't have unprotected sex and don't drop out of college. What makes you think telling divers don't go into overheads will work any better? Inexperienced divers are begging to be taken on dives beyond their level of training and experience. If the competent professional will not take them, they will either end up going with an incompetent professional or by themselves.

    This thread had drifted woefully off course. The OP is not an inexperienced diver, this thread is not about inexperienced divers blindly following a DM. I'd like to get back on topic. I'd like the OP to answer the questions I asked in post #37. I'd also like everyone to have enough food, a roof over their head and to live in peace and harmony for ever more :)
     
  5. ccredifo

    ccredifo Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Carmel, IN
    84
    2
    You mentioned the Papuan spoke little English but yet you also said "thorough dive briefings". I'm curious to know if the cave was mentioned in the briefing.

    If the DM didn't mention a cave during the briefing then I would not have entered, especially with 800 PSI....
     
  6. Tortuga68

    Tortuga68 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Puerto Galera, Philippines
    4,104
    842
    Your question has already been answered by the OP - it wasn't mentioned

    It seems reasonable to assume that the briefings weren't given by the Papuan guide
     
  7. ScubaSteve

    ScubaSteve Wow.....what a DB

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Acton, Ontario
    23,370
    4,416

    Lack of training for a Cave aside, I would hope that no recreational diver diving a single AL80 would enter a cave ever with 800psi left in their tank. Unless of course that is the only way back to the surface. This is no matter if it was mentioned in the briefing or not. At 800psi you better be slowly on your way to the surface and close to safety stop depth. This is of course meant for all future dives and is not directed at the OP. IMNSHO, the DM never should have allowed (or caused) the OP to get into that position.
     

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