That pesky Medical Statement

[Boiler_81]

Because they are asking me to check off a bunch or yes no questions on my health. That is none of their business. A question of are your fit to dive, I would answer.

There is a post above about Sandals resorts asking for a Doctor's permission slip. This whole thing is a slippery slope.

So why not give them the bit of paper that says you are fit? Then no need to say which box you would have ticked. No privacy invaded.

 

[KenGordon]

Actually, once a contract has been made, evidenced by the payment of fees, I think a customer has exactly that right. If the dive op wants to know more about me, they need to ask before they take my money.

So sue them. It is common practice, even if not in their terms and conditions you ought to expect to be asked and if you go diving not prepared to answer no to the questions you had better take a doctor's note. Or dive in the UK. We won't even ask about certification until the inquest unless you are training.

 

[KenGordon]

Because they are asking me to check off a bunch or yes no questions on my health. That is none of their business. A question of are your fit to dive, I would answer.

There is a post above about Sandals resorts asking for a Doctor's permission slip. This whole thing is a slippery slope.

Have you tried this?

Are you saying that some op turned down a fitness to dive certificate from a diving doctor and then asked you to tick the boxes?

I agree that the position put forward above about Sandals is bad. I have never met an op that did that and the t&c on their web site does not support that being the case.

I cannot figure out how to paste with this android thing imam using, but it is there to find.

 

[redacted]

So sue them. It is common practice, even if not in their terms and conditions you ought to expect to be asked and if you go diving not prepared to answer no to the questions you had better take a doctor's note. Or dive in the UK. We won't even ask about certification until the inquest unless you are training.

Sue them for what???

When I contract with a dive op, I expect to sign a fairly standard liability release which includes a statement such as "I also understand that skin diving and scuba diving are physically strenuous activities and that I will be exerting myself during this experience, and that if I am injured as a result of heart attack, panic, hyperventilation, drowning or any other cause, that I expressly assume the risk of said injuries and that I will not hold the Released Parties responsible for the same. " (from a PADI form).

If the dive op surprises me with something much different, I do know how ro respond so as not to interfere with my dive trip. If the op has a more elaborate medical requirement established before we make a contract, I consider that in my selection decision.

No basis for any legal action on my part.

 

[Edward3c]

So sue them. It is common practice, even if not in their terms and conditions you ought to expect to be asked and if you go diving not prepared to answer no to the questions you had better take a doctor's note. Or dive in the UK. We won't even ask about certification until the inquest unless you are training.

To our friends over the pond, that's because in the U.K. most skippers are just providing a taxi service to/from the dive site. It's down to the diver what they do, there isn't any law to say individuals must be qualified to scuba. Teaching is covered by the Diving at Work Regulations only if it's commercial: PADI et al.

 

[KenGordon]

Sue them for what???

For the costs you incurred and what you paid them. You are complaining you have a contract that they are breaching.

 

[Boiler_81]

I have never had a need to provide an op with a fitness to dive certificate. I get an annual physical every year and my doctor and I discuss my fitness to dive. I am a big believer in personal accountability. Part of that accountability is my annual physical. Lawyers and the fear of being sued have ruined the concept.

The OP advised not lying on the certificate so that the op could provide appropriate help. The fact of the matter is, for some people filling out the form honestly results in either a choice of a.) being denied a dive trip or b.) divulging personal medical history to someone who is not bound by medical confidentiality laws.

As seen in this thread, most divers opt to lie and check no so that they don't have to disclose personal information. Thereby making the whole process a joke and maybe even dangerous. The fact that people are conditioned to lie in order to not provide personal information may encourage them to keep lying when in fact they do have a real issue which would preclude them from diving.

Have you tried this?

Are you saying that some op turned down a fitness to dive certificate from a diving doctor and then asked you to tick the boxes?

I agree that the position put forward above about Sandals is bad. I have never met an op that did that and the t&c on their web site does not support that being the case.

I cannot figure out how to paste with this android thing imam using, but it is there to find.

 

[KenGordon]

The fact of the matter is, for some people filling out the form honestly results in either a choice of a.) being denied a dive trip or b.) divulging personal medical history to someone who is not bound by medical confidentiality laws

This is not true. If you hand over the fitness to dive cert you are done. There is no need to go into detail.

 

[Boiler_81]

OK, I have stated my opinion of this. I'm not handing a permission slip from my Dr. to go out on a dive boat. As stated before, I am responsible for myself. I guess, I'm just stubborn in my independent beliefs.

This is not true. If you hand over the fitness to dive cert you are done. There is no need to go into detail.

 

[Frontpointer1000]

If you're on a trip out of town, your options are probably limited to Emergency Room.

Dont ever do this. It will waste your time and the ED doc's time. And they won't sign it. As an ER physician, I have had several people bring in forms for whatever reason. Unless they pertain to the specific emergency at hand, I will not fill them out. And honestly some of those forms take so much time and review of so much information that it is not feasible to fill those forms out. It is not the role of an ER physician to do so.

Something no one has been able to answer to my satisfaction:

The question about family history of heart attack/stroke (or whatever the specific wording is): how far back do you have to go? I've checked the yes box, but added a note that the relative affected was a grandparent, not parent. Is checking yes when it was only a grandparent, not a parent/sibling, necessary?

I am interested in brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, parents, and yes even grandparents. I think two generations shows some significance. I always ask about that.

and hypothetically speaking...

If my father died last week of a heart attack at age 105, do I now need to say YES to having a family history of heart attack?

Note that if he died of a heart attack at the tender age of 45, then I would have been able to answer NO for the next 25 years...

Which of these 2 situations seems to be more realistic for concern?

The form is a joke.

I absolutely agree the form is a joke. From the training perspective, it is not a joke. However having a typical physician fill out that form is probably more of a joke and less beneficial than we might expect. The fact is we live longer than we used to, and so we have to redefine age significance.

I'm 62. For God's sake, stop this post. Mark "yes" or "no" one way or the other and get on with it. If you mark a "YES", you have to get a Dr.'s permission from someone who may or may not know dive medicine. ****--it's so simple.
Those medical forms are so "for the dive shops" anyway-- WE LEARNED THAT IN DIVEMASTER SCHOOL.

I think there are a lot of people who are upset about the form because it really doesn't do anything but invade personal, private matters, and does not really add any benefit to the dive. It's like having a school ask your child's social security number. They don't need it, they shouldn't use it, and it simply does not provide any benefit. It's an invasion of something that does not require such invasive measures.

Quite frankly, the medical form in no way actually mitigates legal risk for the dive operation. It is a farce, a joke, and does not help them in any way.

Take it from another perspective, I do not believe I've ever been on any dive operation where the dive op changed its protocols, or provided some different kind of care for individuals who did Mark yes on their medical form. The fact is the dive op is not a medical entity and does not know how to provide medical care. They don't know the difference between a cardiac arrest secondary to a stroke versus a pulmonary embolism versus cardiomyopathy versus diabetic ketoacidosis. Nor should they.

The diver should be responsible for himself or herself. The diver should determine whether or not he or she is capable, comfortable, trained, and in a condition adequate for the dive.