The changing Scuba Industry

[drrich2]

Live-aboards can be an opportunity to interact with people from other cultures; hoping for an opportunity to do that isn't a slam against one's own.

I've seen posts by cruisers on a cruise ship forum who, elders themselves, enjoy being amongst the energy of a younger crowd. If you read about the 'experience' of cruise ships with a mainly senior clientele, vs. the different environment of one catering strongly to families. While a live-aboard boat isn't going to have a rock climbing wall and a flow rider, and individuals shouldn't be assumed to be stereotypical, I figure there are some broad trends that tend to apply to various demographics on average.

Perhaps the scuba industry should put a little marketing emphasis on the opportunity of the dive tourist (which I think most divers are, to some extent) to learn about other lands & cultures, instead of just what corals & endemic fish species they have? Should advertising include more photos & excursions visiting native villages or towns, etc...? Educational onboard talks about the native culture?

Richard.

 

[Saniflush]

Many others on here have already expressed anything I was thinking much clearer that I could have so there is no need for me to go off on a diatribe. I would say this though,
Leave your politics at the door when around new people and get to know them first. Not only will it be more enjoyable for everyone, you and they are much more likely to be accepting of a difference of opinion when it is discussed later no matter what it is if some common ground exists first.

 

[Neilwood]

The last two liveaboards I have been on have been a mix of all ages.
First one with 15 on board had 5 50+ divers, 3 40-50, 5 30-40 and 2 20-30.

The last one was 20 and the only difference was more 30-40.

Everyone got on great with the 20 somethings chatting to the 50+ divers - what made a difference was that people went slightly out of their ways to be outgoing with a few icebreaker games thrown in. amazing how easy it is to chat to people once everyone has had a good laugh at each other.

 

[admikar]

I'm in my late 30's, so not exactly young. After seeing "that" post, boy,am I glad I am not young "modern" millennial. BTW, maybe we should introduce her to that journalist female from Galapagos thread,they might get along?
On topic, does scuba industry needs to change? Of course! Change what? I have no idea!
OK, seriously now, what scuba industry should do is starting to pay more attention to kids. I might be wrong, but after "we want all" millennial generation, current kid generation is starting to resemble my kid generation. OK, we had less choices, but kids of today are again starting to hold on on ideas that drew their attention. Scuba is an expensive sport, but so are snowboarding, flying, traveling...all the stuff I do (holy ****, I have more money than I thought). But, all those industries (OK, except flying) are trying to get them young. Maybe scuba industry should do the same.

 

[KathyV]

I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life... And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.

2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.

3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.

4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?

After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.

Interesting change of perspective over time. When we were young divers we were very much in awe of the older divers that we had the privilege to meet and even dive with; people like Captain Don Stewart, Bob Soto, and Captain Slate.

Our heroes were the great ocean explorers and environmentalists like Jacques Cousteau and Sylvia Earle. We thought of them as legends, not as "old people" and would have loved to meet them.

But the majority of the older divers that we met were not legends, mostly they were just ordinary people that loved diving, but it was fun to mix with them, learn from them, and hear their stories.

Obviously times have changed and who can tell if it is for the better or worse? But I feel sorry for people that are missing out on the rich experiences that can be enjoyed when you take the opportunity to interact with individuals of mixed generations and cultures. Oh well, it's their loss, but I am glad that we are more open-minded and less biased.

Good luck to you, I hope that you find other pastimes that you can enjoy without the need to mix with old people.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.

2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.

3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.

4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?

After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.

Well that sucks.
But hey, I have two young great nieces that want to learn to dive with old uncle Eric. They are 17 and 20 yo. Since you’re quiting, what kind of gear do you have and how much do you want for it? I want to get them set up. They are thrilled about learning to dive and then going up north to Sonoma County and shooting some lings for dinner.
I’m up in Santa Rosa.
Let me know.
Thanks

 

[Jack Hammer]

...uhh...


Anyone else consider this was just a simple trolling post and a bunch of folks bought right into it? And then a bunch more keep getting indignant and biting more....

 

[Jamesdclxxv]

I would like to point out that nightfalls post does not represent the views of all millennials.
Perhaps I am in the minority but I have invested in my own gear early on (not certified yet) and am more interested in the challenge of learning and mastering new skills rather than just the experience of diving in exotic locations once a year. I have no problem with "old" people and would actually rather dive with experienced and knowledgeable divers.

 

[RayfromTX]

Not a troll. Member for 5 years. Posted from where she said she was. No history of trolling. I judge it to be legit and I am a natural skeptic.

 

[The Chairman]

I judge it to be legit and I am a natural skeptic.

I resist the urge to call anyone who disagrees with me a troll. It's just plain lazy since it's not descriptive enough to be useful. Better to address the issues and enter the discussion than to just throw the "troll stone".