The eternal question... Neoprene or Trilam drysuit?

[Storker]

Right. But, if the neo truly does have an advantage in ease of managing "the bubble" and requiring less undies, as has been suggested in this thread, then wouldn't even the serious guys, spending the serious money, choose a neo suit. They could have it made to fit whatever undergarments they want.

I'm only speaking from my own experience, but the reason I switched from a neo suit to a trilam suit was winter diving. The baggy trilam allowed a thicker undersuit than my neo suit did, and there's a limit to the warmth you get from a neo suit with moderate undergarments. Also, since the main reason for choosing a neo suit is the (fairly) snug fit, if you choose a size allowing a thick undersuit you might as well choose trilam since the bubble size is comparable.

When the water is 4C and the topside air is -5C, the quality (and thickness) of the undersuit is pretty vital for comfort. For me, that made the hassle of managing a bigger bubble worth it. But when the water is warm(ish), i still prefer my old neo suit.

 

[W W Meixner]

Warren

What's the quality like.

I was a great fan of DUI suits.
Started with a DUI TLS (Trilaminate).
When I had worn that out, I bought a DUI Crushed Neoprene, just as they switched to rock boots. Absolutely loved the suit, great fit, very comfortable. I wore the suit into the ground, in fact, I carried on diving it well passed its best, even when I was getting wet (which was a mistake).
I also have another TLS, which I have used for overseas trips, and as a spare suit.

I wanted to buy another DUI crushed neoprene. But everyone I new that had one in the more recent history, had had quality issues. Panels that came apart, seams you could see through. Delaminating material.
What was worse was exceptionally poor service, when they had issues.

I am happy to pay the price for a good new suit, but not one were the quality is poor, or with a company that won't stand behind there product.

Currently I have a White's Fusion. Which has been dry, and hardwearing.

Gareth

Hey Gareth...

Mine's great...couldn't be happier...have had excellent support...

As well as custom sizing...I had some ''custom'' touches on mine...including the neoprene seals...which are not too popular anymore...I like neoprene seals...warm/comfortable/durable...easily cleaned...and I find if they're cared for...and lubed with Silicone after each use/washing...they'll last indefinitely...I don't use aerosol silicone because the propane propellant is very detrimental to the materials...I find nothing works better than the ''thick'' formula Armor-all...

You're not the first person who has mentioned to me that DUI had quality and other issues...I'm don't know when this period was...or if the complaints were founded...I can only say that DUI has been very good with me...and my suit is perfect...

Best...Warren

 

[stuartv]

I'm only speaking from my own experience, but the reason I switched from a neo suit to a trilam suit was winter diving. The baggy trilam allowed a thicker undersuit than my neo suit did, and there's a limit to the warmth you get from a neo suit with moderate undergarments. Also, since the main reason for choosing a neo suit is the (fairly) snug fit, if you choose a size allowing a thick undersuit you might as well choose trilam since the bubble size is comparable.

When the water is 4C and the topside air is -5C, the quality (and thickness) of the undersuit is pretty vital for comfort. For me, that made the hassle of managing a bigger bubble worth it. But when the water is warm(ish), i still prefer my old neo suit.

And when the water is actually warm, but you want redundant buoyancy, then back to a trilam?

So, for really cold water - and especially longer dives in cold water - a trilam has the advantage? And for warm water, trilam has the advantage? But, for some range in the middle, where neo and modest undies are sufficient, then you think neo has the advantage?

Fair enough.

I just looked back at my log. I did 8 dives in the Saint Lawrence a couple of years ago. Bottom temps were 58 - 60F. That is 15C, roughly. I was using my Bare XCS2 compressed neoprene suit. The first couple of days, I was just wearing long johns underneath and I was getting cold. I went to Dive Tech and bought some Fourth Element Arctic (but not Arctic Expedition) leggings, shirt, and socks. Those had me plenty warm enough, but they were heavy enough that the overall package became one where it was VERY difficult for me to reach my valves on my twinset. Maybe I would have been better off to buy undergarments that were thicker than my long johns but less thick than the Arctic stuff. I don't feel like the Arctic stuff is all that thick.

Anyway, the point is that 59F/15C really isn't very cold. Maybe uncompressed neoprene would have kept me warm enough. But, the compressed stuff didn't, and it didn't work well with decent undies. In contrast, now I wear a trilam with the same undies and I'm warm enough and I can reach my valves. Of course, everyone is different, so YMMV.

 

[Storker]

And when the water is actually warm, but you want redundant buoyancy, then back to a trilam?

I have redundant buoyancy no matter the material of my drysuit, so I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say.

So, for really cold water - and especially longer dives in cold water - a trilam has the advantage? And for warm water, trilam has the advantage?

No. In cold water, trilam has the advantage since its fit allows for more undergarments. In warm-ish water, (compressed) neo has the advantage, since it allows less undergarments and a smaller bubble to manage. For me and my diving, other people's diving may well be different from mine.

As I've tried to convey before, I'm only speaking from my own experience. That may be useful to the OP, and it may not be. Their conditions may be similar to mine, in which case my experiences may be useful, or they may be very different. In which case, my experiences may be of no value at all.

 

[EireDiver606]

And I'd still claim that your observation may be tainted by confirmation bias. Mostly because it's at odds with what I've seen, though, even though the multiple of anecdote ≠ data (for both of us).

Whose to say that your experience isn’t biased either? Furthermore, I don’t a Drysuit yet. You have neo Drysuit. Therefore, you technically are more biased than me.

 

[EireDiver606]

he main reason for choosing a neo suit is the (fairly) snug fit,

The same with trilam made to measure. It’s the exact same.

that made the hassle of managing a bigger bubble worth it.

Hi @johnkendall do you know if there is a bigger bubble to manage in a trilam Drysuit?
What’s your take on the whole trilam v neoprene Drysuit thing? You probably dive a Santi or DUI I imagine...

allows less undergarments and a smaller bubble to manage.

I’ve heard that neoprene isn’t warm enough to even consider that as a reason to buy a neo Drysuit. Is this true? I know it’s warmer but is it even worth it if you have all underlying different issues.

 

[Storker]

You have neo Drysuit.

I have one compressed neo DS (Scubapro) and one trilam DS (Waterproof D7). IM(NSH)O both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd like to claim that I just possibly might be somewhat less biased than what other posters might be.

But, dude, that's just my opinion, ok?

 

[Storker]

trilam made to measure

A MTM trilam is more expensive than a stock trilam and even more expensive than an off-the-rack neo suit.

Some of us are on a budget. If you're on a budget, you have to compromise. There seldom is one given answer, and TANSTAAFL.

 

[admikar]

Why would I choose a suit that is colder, harder to dive, has tons of drag, buoyancy issues etc.? The sad part is that there are just so many people who will defend their shell suits out of loyalty to a suit that they have nothing to compare to.

I can understand your passion and POW,but...part in bold? Some time ago, there was a thread where dude pushed for mono fin (and maybe some tank fairings, can't remember now). His point was how much speed he can get. General consensus was that he was right, but no one would care, scuba is NOT A RACE. How many dives require that ultra low drag coefficient? Best thing I learned here both for my air consumption and for finding stuff of interest-------go slow. Frog kick- load, kick, glide, stop, repeat. BTW, I dived both neo and trilam. I find trilam much more versatile.

S...

My first dry suit was a Pinnacle Evo II...Trilam...Latex Seals...Diagonal Front Zipper/zipper flap...Hard Boots...duel cargo pockets...with medium loft undergarment...extremely durable...super warm especially for extended duration Canadian conditions...but...far too much bulk...hard boots prevent the suit from being completely turned inside-out...very heavy...very uncomfortable...found all kinds of excuses not to use it...the suit was sized for my dimensions however there was enough material in this suit for me and two small elephants...good suit for dock work...not much use for anything else...This suit was the suggestion of the dive shop owner...I had something else in mind and if I'd not have caved...my choice was far superior...seldom used...sold to a dock worker...

Second suit...Scuba Pro Ever-Dry Four...3 mm neoprene...neoprene seals...soft feet...durable...very comfortable...single cargo pocket...light Max T-Heat two piece undergarment worked fine...used Scuba Pro Rock Boots...able to turn suit inside-out...nice package of accessories included...
But...rear horizontal zipper...having to have assistance to zip up was not the problem...extreme care was needed when zipping up as the zipper wanted to bite into the inner tongue flap...there was even a warning sheet included with the package...warning of the zipper/flap concern...it's like putting a bump sign on the side of the road and never fixing the bump...I sold the suit after only 11 dives...

Current suit...Custom Tailored...DUI CF 200...DUI's proprietary ''crushed neoprene''...neoprene seals...diagonal front zipper/zippered closure...soft feet...duel zipped cargo pockets/knife sheath...Pee valve...DUI Dry Suit Boots...use Max T-Heat light two piece undergarment and Max T-Heat soxs...just enough material for me...no room for small elephants...can't say enough good things...fabulous suit...leaves everything else for dead...

Safe...Warm diving...
Warren...

All I can take away from your post is that you had a crappy trilam suit and that somehow translates neo suits are better?

He only just learned (from me) that Waterproof now offers replaceable neoprene neck seals that work with Si Tech replaceable neck systems.

Me too. Thanks dude.

 

[RainPilot]

A MTM trilam is more expensive than a stock trilam and even more expensive than an off-the-rack neo suit.

Some of us are on a budget. If you're on a budget, you have to compromise. There seldom is one given answer, and TANSTAAFL.

Seaskin Nova is around 500-600£ MTM. I could not find a stock DS for that price anywhere.