The Octopus Conundrum

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I have specific rigs for my doubles and for a single cylinder dive have two rigs, one with an octopus that I essentially use for traveling abroad but sometimes use locally too and another without an octopus that I use locally along with a pony and it's designated rig.

All my single tank rigs have long hoses as does my primary rig for my doubles.
 
I use the same configurations whether I'm diving solo or with a buddy, which is either a standard hog rig for diving a single tank, or sidemount when the profile calls for doubles. The only thing I change is the addition of a slung AL40 when solo diving with a singles rig. Perhaps when I reach a point in life where diving those configurations becomes physically inhibiting, I'll consider something a bit more streamlined. Until then the benefit of "muscle memory" in an emergency outweighs any potential benefit I might get from changing configurations ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I have a long hose on my main reg, a short, bungeed hose on my pony reg, and an air 2. The Air 2 hasn't killed me yet.
 
… The Air 2 hasn't killed me yet.

Is anyone actually concerned over an Air 2 (integrated octo & power inflator) in the hands of an experienced diver? I can see it “possibly” being a task-loading issue with a new diver in an actual emergency, especially if they don’t have a pull-dump. Emergencies are a problem for anyone that can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.
 
I see a lot of you mentioning long hoses? Why? What purpose does a long hose serve with a solo diver? I can see a 36/40 for allowing routing under the shoulder but a long hose (60 inches plus) is for air sharing and if one is actually solo, there is no need to share air. Extra hose one does not need, at least for me, goes against my minimalist grain.

It seems like most people essentially use the same set up/rig for solo they do for buddy diving though they may add a pony and it is usually slung with some exceptions?

From the SDI course, at least the instructor I had, the pony should represent approximately 1/3 of your back gas. Assuming a single tank rig. A 19 is close enough to that figure for either a 63 cf or 80 cf main tank. Thus my use of the 19cf pony. I am a long time believer in the Rule of Thirds. If I need a redundant gas supply, if I do ??, then that gas supply should be 1/3 (approximately) of the reserve I would have held in the main tank.

When I am solo, I try and plan for surfacing with 800 psi. Not quite a third. If there are shallow opportunities to breath my tank down and loiter a bit, I might. I adjust the size of my main tank(s) to allow for that 1/3 reserve and still provide adequate bottom time. I just figure my pony should provide essentially the same reserve, otherwise it is not serving a real purpose as a redundant supply.

Back on the standard rigs and long hoses, it seems many are really group diving and still assuming responsibility for the other divers in the group? It might be a terminology thing, but if I am solo, I am indeed solo. If there are other divers about, I am not buddied with them and I am not assuming the need to share air with them and do not equip to do so. If I am group diving or buddy diving then I will rig to do so and will ride my buddies wing until death do us part. Two completely different things to me.

N

---------- Post added March 8th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ----------

I use the same configurations whether I'm diving solo or with a buddy, which is either a standard hog rig for diving a single tank, or sidemount when the profile calls for doubles. The only thing I change is the addition of a slung AL40 when solo diving with a singles rig. Perhaps when I reach a point in life where diving those configurations becomes physically inhibiting, I'll consider something a bit more streamlined. Until then the benefit of "muscle memory" in an emergency outweighs any potential benefit I might get from changing configurations ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If you are diving a single rig, Hog set up, with a slung pony, and there is a failure of your main supply, to which regulator does your the muscle memory take you?

Just wondering because if on a double set you would go to your bungeed second and shut down a post. If on a single rig, will muscle memory take you to the bungeed necklace or to the pony? Are you wrapping the pony reg or keeping it bungeed to and integral to the pony? Just curious. I do not believe you are depending on rote memory and muscles do not really have memory. But I understand what you are saying.

N

---------- Post added March 8th, 2015 at 12:05 PM ----------

I have a long hose on my main reg, a short, bungeed hose on my pony reg, and an air 2. The Air 2 hasn't killed me yet.

You live dangerously, don't you? :wink:.

N

---------- Post added March 8th, 2015 at 12:12 PM ----------

Speaking of a rare failure of a main regulator or main supply. I am going to breath that supply until it gives me nothing before transitioning to my pony regulator or with an independent doubles rig, before going over to it. But, I will burp the pony reg to make sure it is ready to rock and roll when I do switch, if I need to, because gents, Nemrod is on his way to the surface. My muscle memory says, no air, go up now!

N
 
I see a lot of you mentioning long hoses? Why? What purpose does a long hose serve with a solo diver? I can see a 36/40 for allowing routing under the shoulder but a long hose (60 inches plus) is for air sharing and if one is actually solo, there is no need to share air. Extra hose one does not need, at least for me, goes against my minimalist grain.

It seems like most people essentially use the same set up/rig for solo they do for buddy diving though they may add a pony and it is usually slung with some exceptions?

From the SDI course, at least the instructor I had, the pony should represent approximately 1/3 of your back gas. Assuming a single tank rig. A 19 is close enough to that figure for either a 63 cf or 80 cf main tank. Thus my use of the 19cf pony. I am a long time believer in the Rule of Thirds. If I need a redundant gas supply, if I do ??, then that gas supply should be 1/3 (approximately) of the reserve I would have held in the main tank.

When I am solo, I try and plan for surfacing with 800 psi. Not quite a third. If there are shallow opportunities to breath my tank down and loiter a bit, I might. I adjust the size of my main tank(s) to allow for that 1/3 reserve and still provide adequate bottom time. I just figure my pony should provide essentially the same reserve, otherwise it is not serving a real purpose as a redundant supply.

Back on the standard rigs and long hoses, it seems many are really group diving and still assuming responsibility for the other divers in the group? It might be a terminology thing, but if I am solo, I am indeed solo. If there are other divers about, I am not buddied with them and I am not assuming the need to share air with them and do not equip to do so. If I am group diving or buddy diving then I will rig to do so and will ride my buddies wing until death do us part. Two completely different things to me.

N

---------- Post added March 8th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ----------



If you are diving a single rig, Hog set up, with a slung pony, and there is a failure of your main supply, to which regulator does your the muscle memory take you?

Just wondering because if on a double set you would go to your bungeed second and shut down a post. If on a single rig, will muscle memory take you to the bungeed necklace or to the pony? Are you wrapping the pony reg or keeping it bungeed to and integral to the pony? Just curious. I do not believe you are depending on rote memory and muscles do not really have memory. But I understand what you are saying.

N


I fail to see the application of some consistent logic in your description of your gear selection. On one hand you take a ridiculously little tank (a 63) because you do not want something big and heavy. No problem with that decision.

Then you say you want to minimize gear. Eliminate a hose here or there, minimize the length of a hose, and entirely skip a redundant bail out system for any solo dives less than 60 feet. I have no problem with that.

However, making the assumption that if a single LP hose blows (and assuming you have no redundancy) then you are going to have to swim pretty efficiently from 60 feet to zero feet. I don't care how good of a freediver you are, this is going to be stressful and somewhat of a challenge and you are NOT going to be able to dick around on the bottom or solve any other problem on the bottom which (however unlikely) may occur simultaneously. In short, no pony from 55 feet, you are gonna have to boogy out of there quickly and efficiently in order to make a safe ascent that is neither too fast or too slow.

So you say you want to take a 63 cu-ft tank below 60 feet and this puts you in the realm of needing a pony bottle (while solo). But you want to reserve 1/3 of your air supply for an ascent in the main tank and carry an ADDITIONAL independent reserve of 1/3 of your main tank (19 cu-ft). WHY? Because some instructor told you to do that?

Just how deep are you gonna go with a 63 bottle with an allowable air use of around 40 cu-ft for descent, ascent and bottom time? I would guess that it won't be much more than 100 ft. Is that correct?

So where is the logic? From my perspective you are carrying no pony at 60 feet because you are a bad ass freediver, you carry a tiny main tank because you are too weak to carry a larger tank and then you carry a ridiculously large pony bottle for dives that are just 30 or 40 feet deeper than the depth you carry zero redundancy for (ostensibly because some instructor told you that is what you should have).

How does this make any sense? WHY do you need such a big pony? Why is it that at a depth of 58 feet, you can handle any catastrophic failure imaginable and simply swim up, but at a depth of 86.5 feet, you suddenly need 19 cu-ft to swim up 25 feet to reach the depth (60 ft) that you need ZERO air for to ascend?

It makes no sense to me. Saving 1/3 of the air in your primary is also overkill in my opinion, but that does add some safety buffers.

You seem to be mixing a rather cavalier attitude about safety at less than 60 feet and then over 60 feet you throw out the desire to dive with a lightweight and streamlined rig by carrying a 19 cu-ft bottle.

I recommended a 6 cu-ft bottle from say 100 feet and I think is is a lot safer than NOTHING at 60 feet.

For me, rather than carrying a heavy and cumbersome 19 cu-ft bottle that I most likely will NEVER use and a (too small) primary tank... I would choose a larger capacity tank (that would give me more than 40 cu-ft of usable air), I would not arbitrarily reserve 1/3 of that main tank for a solo ascent (giving me even more usable air) and then I would carry a SMALL pony that would be just enough to get me to the surface if I blow a LP hose or something at 100 feet. I would be diving with a rig that weighs the same, provides me MUCH more actual dive time and is in my opinion, safe enough. A HP 100 cu-ft tank could give you more than DOUBLE the usable air in a 63 if you cut back a little on your reserve and used a 6 cu-ft pony, I bet it would weigh the same or even less.

These issues are a lot more relevant than an extra inflator hose or the type of safe second you use.
 
I see a lot of you mentioning long hoses? Why? What purpose does a long hose serve with a solo diver?...

Agreed. I certainly don’t need all that hose to share air with myself. I think the whole long-hose concept is misguided. I don’t want some OOA diver on the verge of panic hanging on the end of my first stage doing god know what. I what them hanging onto my harness with a death-grip and looking me in the eyes while we head for sunshine. Seven foot is really crazy. It is too short to exit a small hatch mask to fin-tip and way longer than needed for air sharing.

…When I am solo, I try and plan for surfacing with 800 psi. Not quite a third…

I plan to hit the boat or beach with a relative vacuum if I can get myself in less than 40' of water with 500+ PSI. Pressure is irrelevant, breathable minutes to surface is what counts.
 
Just how deep are you gonna go with a 63 bottle with an allowable air use of around 40 cu-ft for descent, ascent and bottom time? I would guess that it won't be much more than 100 ft. Is that correct?

Well, I am late for my 25 mile bike ride and two mile swim, it is a long workout day today. So I will try to answer you questions later. But this one I have already answered. Given my SAC, I typically dive a 63 as most do an 80. I have the same or better bottom times. The 63 cf is sufficient for most of my solo profiles. When it is not, I do something else.

Bike is waiting, gotta go.

N
 
For me I rock either an AL80 or an HP100 and have a AL40 slung as my redundant air source. I use rock bottom to calculate my turn around point for my back gas and BACK GAS only. Especially for solo diving, I am a little more conservative in everything I do. My bailout bottle has a brass gauge and an XTX 200 regulator on it, my main has another xtx 200 and a gauge console. In the case I needed to help another diver I would hand them my primary and switch to emergency gas and ascend.

As for my redundant air source, I don't calculate my "emergency - **** has hit the fan" gas into my gas management plan....EVER.

Why do I use an AL40? It was simple, it was a budget issue when I bought it...I wanted the tank to grow with me as a diver and its the perfect size for a pure oxygen deco bottle down the road.
 
Just curious, how many of you, as a solo diver, still tote an octopus/safe second on your main tank regulator? And why if so?

N

In cold water (last month in Toronto the water was 33F) an H-valve on the tank and a second regulator is important in case of a free flow.

With an H-valve and second reg a fee flow is just an annoyance. Switch regs and shut down the offending reg, wait a while and it may thaw out.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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