The "other" end of the DIR question

[simbrooks]

Not DIR, but like many have similar gear configuration ideas due to comfort, ease of use and function that i like and appreciate. I also try to eat well, exercise several times a week and to perfect those skills every time i am in the water. I already have my BP/Wings (zeagle) for use in technical stuff in the future and will run a long hose and bungeed short (not due to DIR, but accepted practice in general cave diving). I use inner tubing to snug things up on my webbing to streamline and try to get things in a reasonable order/place/configuration to suit my use. I am also looking at a can light and will probably place that where it is also deemed DIR to place - due to convenience, not sure what else, but i do keep a weather eye on the DIR forum to have a check on things and ask others about equipment, training, technique and the like when i believe there to be an issue that needs to be addressed. I know i am a pretty poor diver at this time, but i am still working on it and trying to get all my ducks in a row! Oh and i am interested in getting the DIR/f book, i also have a whole library of other diving materials to help to understand the why for's and wheres to what i am doing, techniques and special considerations for types of diving i would like to do and will hope to train for in the future - kind of like prepping up.

 

[detroit diver]

Folks,

The comments about "Halcyon only" are really getting old.

Let's set the record straight: Those diving DIR DO NOT CARE WHAT BRAND YOU USE if it fits the equipment criterion.

Use a Oxycheq wing. Use ANY non-bungied wing.
Use a FredT backplate
Use any no-name continuous webbing.
Use any low volume mask
Etc. etc. etc.

Please stop passing along the inaccuracies about DIR equipment.

Thanks.

 

[Dan Gibson]

There is a story about Andrew Georgitsis discussing this with a Tech 1 student. The student said you couldn't remain balanced with several stages on one side. AG told them to give him 6 stages and he would put them on one side (requires a leash and correct tanks). Then he showed them how it can be done and balance was not a problem. This would be a good one to confim if someone else has heard this story. My source is pretty reliable, although I question if it was really six stages. Knowing how AG is, I wouldn't put it past him. I do know that stages do not cause me any balance problems and I carry the Helios 9.

For example all deco tanks on the left. Why acording to GUE, (from my limited experience), so you are balanced with your can light on the right and your hose routing is clean, and scootering is easier. With Can lights getting smaller and smaller this argument is now bull.

 

[nalfein]

I didn't have a clue as to what DIR was until I got onto a few of these boards. I've done lots of reading on the subject, between posts, sites and the DIR/F book by JJ. I think they have lots of good things to offer, whether or not GUE invented the concepts, compiled them from others, or just repackaged it as their own, I havn't a clue. Quite frankly it doesn't really matter to me who thought it all up, so long as it works. I like the attention to personal skill level, commitment, and always bringing your 'A' game to diving.
However, there is something intangible about the system that bugs me, I don't want to wade around and try to put my finger on it. I don't have near the diving experience to start picking apart their system, but it doesn't quite gel with my own personal style, a bit too rigid. I was looking at a DIR/F course, just to check it out, but the closest one I'm aware of is like 18 hours away.
I'll definitely listen to what they have to say, I presently adopt several of their approaches, and will likely add to that, but I will likely never be DIR. No one big reason, just a few small ones.
I've enjoyed this thread.....

chris

 

[Diver0001]

I have not, because to me it does not seem like a range of choices.

Juls

Maybe you're right in a sense. If you see DIR as a static thing in which all of the "choices" have already been made then you're right. The way I understand it you need to climb into the reasoning behind the choices to understand why things are the way they are. In many cases your reasoning will lead you to the same conclusion....ie you will make the same "choice" based on weighing the pros and cons.... in which case I still think it's a choice.

I will, however, agree with you that there are a lot of taboo items in the DIR arena and I'll also agree that some of the arguments used to reject alternative ideas in favor of the taboos are not properly grounded in fact or experience..... Personally I wonder how much of that is propagated by cyber divers who are good at memorizing "rules" and not so good at understanding "reasons".... ?

R..

 

[Lead_carrier]

I do like a lot of the ideas and have adopted some of them. I can not consider becoming dir because of a number of their requirements not of which the least is I don't like a bp/wings. I have tried them and just do not care for them. My jacket will do just fine thank you. My bouyancyand air consumption are fine I try to be a safe and conservative diver. I'm by far not the best around but I try to keep my dives safe. I always carry at least 3 sources of air but because I don't follow the dir philosiphy of long hose and bungeed necklace. I have been called unsafe, uneducated, stupid amongst other things. I have even been told that I would die and probaby kill others, if I continued diving in the manner in which I do.

Now I am smart enough to know that this is not the dir philosiphy. It is unfortunate that some of the most vocal zealots cannot understand that just because I don't ride on their bandwagon it doen't make me the eneny. I just prefer another mode of transportation.

 

[Diver0001]

<snip>

because I don't follow the dir philosiphy of long hose and bungeed necklace. I have been called unsafe, uneducated, stupid amongst other things. I have even been told that I would die and probaby kill others, if I continued diving in the manner in which I do.

And your point is..... :54:

R..

 

[gj62]

I liked much of what hogarthian diving had to offer long before the concept of DIR had even been thought of. I also like much of what is advocated in DIR philospohy due to its hogarthian roots. But on the other hand I also do not like much of what it has become or the overzealous manner in which it is preached.

It is, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, very a much an all or nothing proposition. A diver can adopt all of the DIR concepts that fit with their diving style and the mission at hand but if they omit one idea or technique that does not fit what they personally do, they are not considered "DIR". A failure to conform 100% is considered heresy.

I personally have no use for an agency or philosophy that does not allow for free thought, individuality, or the ability for a diver to adapt their equipment to the specific requirements of the dive. In my opinion, DIR philosophy takes precendence over the requirements of a specific mission and I do not agree with this. I believe in ground rules and guidlines but I also believe that an individual diver needs to be free to deviate from them when the situation requires it.

I also have no use for the small percentage fo DIR zealots who feel the need to preach to the unclean divers who, based on years of experience and not just on what they heard in class, understand there is in fact more than one way to do almost anything and doing it differently does not mean it is neccesarily any less safe than "doing it right".

I agree with DA. After 25+ years diving, and spending time as an instructor, I have no use for an agency that appears are rigid as GUE, especially for casual/recreational diving.

The following thumbnail is tongue-in-cheek, please no flames...

 

[diverbrian]

The issue of standard gasses is a good one to talk about whether you want to use them or not.

Before you dive a gas you need to mix it right?

Notice that the GUE standard gasses 32%, 21/35, 18/45, 15/55 and 10/70 can all be mixed with helium ans 32%. So...if you bank 32% mixing is always a snap. Even if you don't have banked 32% it simplified mixing calculations. 30/30 is one of the oddballs but I usually don't use it.

If we use the same gas for the same depth range all the time we'll also get a good feel for what out schedules are like and how they're effected by depth and time changes or even a lost decompression gas. Now we don't need a computer or even a bunch of schedules written in our wet notes. If you do want them written down you can do it once, put it in your wet notes and you're set until you need to replace the little notebook. You just jump in and dive.

We'll both always show up at the dive site with the same has and having planned the same decompression even if we modify it on the fly due to a change in profile. You won't mind if you have to use my gas or I yours.

You get this HUGE amount of simplification in every process from mixing to planning decompression to dealing with emergencied like lost gas.

Now what do you give up?

Maybe a few minutes of bottom time based on a theoretical "NDL"? Who cares it's splitting hairs.

You like to cut back PPO2 in cold water or for hard work? Take a look at the PPO2's of those gasses in the depth ranges they're used in. There's no need to cut back. The exception might be the 30/30 in cold water

Compare all the planning steps for everything from mixing to handling problems for multiple divers using best mix as appose to standard gasses. Don't end the comparisson at recreational no-stop dives because we don't want to have to relearn things later.

Problem is that I don't mix my own gas. The LDS keeps pre-banked EAN36 and Oxygen (for deco blends) around and I tell them what to put in my tanks to the point of using my Voyager software to tell them exactly how much blend and how much air to use. Tri-mix classes are expensive and aren't happening anytime soon so 30/30 isn't an option for me at this time. But yes, the blend in question (where PO2 gets pushed) is EAN30 for me.

Onto the large problem. "Up north", Nitrox isn't always available which forces me to top off tanks with air. The charter captain at Alpena just added nitrox this year. Also until this year, my tanks are not O2 clean, which saved me $50.00 per tank, meaning that they cannot be partial pressure blended in. This also has forced air top-offs in the past. Another issue that comes up with doubles is a reluctance to pay for a fill of nitrox when I have only used 1000 psi or so and air top-offs are cheaper and I still have a pretty rich blend of Nitrox to boot (ie. Maybe I had EAN32 in them.). So sometimes, best mix means the mix that was most practical for one of several reasons and I didn't feel like diving air.

But you are correct on one thing, I do have my preferred standard mixes. I am familar with my No Stop Limits and PO2's on them. I think that I may have memorized the EAN28 table as I only use that mix between 120-135 ft. dives so there isn't much to remember besides 20 minutes and 12 minutes. I did the gas management calculations with doubles a few times and know that I am OK in doubles to those depths and full tanks.

 

[sharkmasterbc]

I'm very suprised this thread has proceeded without too many people "going off".
The reason I have not gone down the DIR path is because I truly belive that I have been doing it right all along. The DIR gear config is derrived from a Hogarthian style and the CD I was taught by has always promoted this config. I also wonder how many people on this board have actually met (in person) a DIR instructor ?
An instructor friend of mine had the opportunity to take the DIR-F course a few months ago in Victoria BC. He has been diving for quite a few years but was very suprised that the instructor was so open minded and not all "YOU MUST BUY HALCYON GEAR". I think it was already posted on this thread....but you don't need to fully kit yourself up in Halcyon gear to be DIR. I think most of us would benifit from taking any course where skills and buddy awareness are the focus.
I still may one day take a DIR-F course, I am definetly not so close minded that I will not take a course because of a few DIR hardcores on the board. Besides this is all pretty much cyber diving is it not. I wont juge someone until I have actually dropped into the water with them.