The "other" end of the DIR question

[Albion]

Well now ... that works both ways. There's a certain cadre of DIR divers in here who keep pulling the "you're just a stroke" act every time someone says something they disagree with. And truth to tell, some of those folks are a bit misinformed as well.... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well I've just been back a re-read some of this, I don't know why, and noticed Bob's comment, and it seems very apt in retrospect. I expressed my opinions as per the purpose of this thread and was suprised by the responces especially the people who dont get whats wrong with the video or could be wrong with it. Then I looked at the profiles of my accusers, a few years experience, AOW & Dir-f C cards, and assume that unless you've taken a DIR course you dont know how to shoot a bag. Guys you need to get off the net and go and do some diving

The last time I did the profile check I found the guy telling me 'what to do' had never been below a 100 foot and I have 100+ dives that deep. Now i'm not anywhere near the experience level of a lot of people on this board but then i'm not telling them how to dive or what courses to take either.

You're happy with DIR and I'm happy without it, that's all there is to it :10:

Now when can we use the no DIR forum :11ztongue

 

[Soggy]

Then I looked at the profiles of my accusers, a few years experience, AOW & Dir-f C cards, and assume that unless you've taken a DIR course you dont know how to shoot a bag. Guys you need to get off the net and go and do some diving

The last time I did the profile check I found the guy telling me 'what to do' had never been below a 100 foot and I have 100+ dives that deep. Now i'm not anywhere near the experience level of a lot of people on this board but then i'm not telling them how to dive or what courses to take either.

Well, all I can tell you is that there is more than one story about people who had thousands of dives under there belts, one who was regularly diving in the 300-400fsw range, who have *quit diving* after taking a DIRF because they realized how woefully inadequate their skills were. They had what they considered excellent instruction and tons of experience. Now, these are clearly an exception, and I assure you that I'm not accusing you of having poor skills. I don't know you, or anything about you other than what I've read in this thread. You could be able to hover motionless midwater with no mask while sharing air and carrying 2 deco bottles...but it's something to think about.

I also agree that the video is definitely not a great demonstration of a liftbag deployment (a skill I also need a great deal of work on).

Experience is important, but it sure as heck ain't everything. Careful thought, training, and instruction will allow anyone with a fairly strong intellect to skip the trial and error of hundreds of dives.


Nice sig, btw, Albion....just remember it's your words, not ours

 

[Matthew]

I'm hoping that you're just trolling with this comment. The video shows the diver inflating a bag out in front of him, at arm's length. The bag is not underneath the diver.

These hysterical criticisms are pathetic.

Without arguing on whether the procedure shown is correct or not, one can very clearly see that the bag IS underneath the diver as he inflates. How pathetic it is when one can deny the obvious just so he can remain in harmony with his idols. I honestly don't believe the claims that DIR divers can't think for themselves, but some can't even seem to use their own eyes.

 

[jonnythan]

Without arguing on whether the procedure shown is correct or not, one can very clearly see that the bag IS underneath the diver as he inflates. How pathetic it is when one can deny the obvious just so he can remain in harmony with his idols. I honestly don't believe the claims that DIR divers can't think for themselves, but some can't even seem to use their own eyes.

Tell me this..

What's the exact difference in a diver's buoyancy between a partially filled SMB at arm's length vs one between your legs?

What position is best to counteract the added buoyancy of an SMB?

 

[Albion]

Without arguing on whether the procedure shown is correct or not, one can very clearly see that the bag IS underneath the diver as he inflates. How pathetic it is when one can deny the obvious just so he can remain in harmony with his idols. I honestly don't believe the claims that DIR divers can't think for themselves, but some can't even seem to use their own eyes.

Precisely. Some of the more experienced guys have now conceeded this is not an ideal demonstration but others still bleat on.

Jonnythan as per my PM to you, which you didnt reply on, he may be able to maintain bouyancy in a nice horizontal manner by inflating like this, but that would not matter a crock if the the inflator jammed and filled the bag too much. It is clearly under him and if it released suddenly the SMB strap could snag his equipment and take him up with it. Under NO circumstances should you fill a bag underneath yourself. If something goes wrong you need to be able to let go, and get clear. If you think with your limited experience that this is good practice carry on

 

[Matthew]

Another accident report? Give me a break. The guy is in the perfect position to fin down, which he did slightly. Whether he's holding the bag or it's under his chin doesn't make a difference, he still has a pound or so of positive buoyancy to deal with. It isn't like you have a 1/2 full bag in your hand and suddenly you rocket upward when you let go and it hits your chest.

Give me a break, the video is perfectly fine.

But even if you dont rocket upward you still increase the risk of getting tangled. That is why it has always been emphasized that everything should be kept away from the body, at arms length. The diver in the video is perfectly fine because he obviously is skilled and in full control of himself, but considering that this is an instructional video, I doubt if the intended audience can handle themselves as well.

 

[RichLockyer]

The bag is under him when he inflates, if he had a mishap with the fill connector he is about to launch himslef too.

The hose fitting does not lock onto the bag like it does on a suit or inflator.

The funny one was a video that someone posted last year.
It was nearly identical to the one linked here, except after tying off the spool and bouncing it around in the water, he clipped it off to his right D-ring!

LOL! That video was only one PWC away from America's Funniest Home Videos. It was a perfect example of someone doing it wrong when they thought they were doing it right.

 

[Matthew]

Tell me this..

What's the exact difference in a diver's buoyancy between a partially filled SMB at arm's length vs one between your legs?

What position is best to counteract the added buoyancy of an SMB?

None. Why?

I agree that you should be able to fin downwards.

 

[RichLockyer]

He is a senior figure within GUE,

He is not involved directly with GUE except as an invited guest speaker.
He WAS the project manager for the WKPP, but he has turned that over to Casey.
He hasn't even posted on Quest in months, so now you can even read Quest without having to read anything from GI.

 

[fishnchips]

Without arguing on whether the procedure shown is correct or not, one can very clearly see that the bag IS underneath the diver as he inflates. How pathetic it is when one can deny the obvious just so he can remain in harmony with his idols. I honestly don't believe the claims that DIR divers can't think for themselves, but some can't even seem to use their own eyes.

Matthew, you are right on this. I truly believe this vedio is someone who dislike DIR, pretend to de DIR and show this video to ridicule DIR standard. Who in the right mind would inflate the lift bag underneath and risking the line entangle with the equipments? IMHO, a pig with 2 brain cells could see that the bag is underneath the diver. This is definitelly not DIR standard. If it is, then the standard of dive safety has hit a new low.

The sad thing is people actually put this kind of video on the net and encourage others to follow. As I pleaded in my earlier post, please put aside any differences between different training agencies, please consider the safety of other divers, tell them the truth-this video is just a prank, and it is a good demo of what NOT TO DO.