THE "PERFECT ( being horizontal ) TRIM" HOAX

[Blackcrusader]

Of course this takes time and observation. Hopefully more instructors will work on having their students achieve neutral buoyancy and decent trim, whatever it's called.

Maybe if the courses were not so short and instructors on training dives actually spent time training rather than just diving with the student they would have better skills before getting certified. But then some agencies wouldn't be able to sell that extra Peak Buoyancy performance cert

 

[Ayisha]

Maybe if the courses were not so short and instructors on training dives actually spent time training rather than just diving with the student they would have better skills before getting certified. But then some agencies wouldn't be able to sell that extra Peak Buoyancy performance cert

Of course. But the instructor has to perceive some value in those skills, be able to demonstrate them, observe what forces are at work in their student's control and position, impart that knowledge and experience, and be able to elicit an appropriate response from the student.

Some instructors can produce proficient students in a "short" course, while some instructors may not produce that level of proficiency even with a much longer course. It depends on all of the above at a minimum.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Maybe if the courses were not so short and instructors on training dives actually spent time training rather than just diving with the student they would have better skills before getting certified. But then some agencies wouldn't be able to sell that extra Peak Buoyancy performance cert

I think that's the fundamental gripe many people have with mainstream con ed: boxes are basically ticked where students perform skills but typically do not master them. It works great for vacation divers who want to complete a class and go home feeling good about themselves making "progress." But the truth of the matter is that there is very little improvement for the consumer. Even if they are made aware of this, they don't care as long as they had fun. They don't mind paying someone, in this case a scuba instructor, to blow sunshine up their backside over 2 or 4 dives and get a card out of it.

Hmm, maybe I should create a distinctive specialty on that: "Get sunshine blown up your backside diver". It will be just dives where we'll do random stuff and I'll tell you how great you are. Perfect for the card collector in your family!

 

[Coztick]

Maybe if the courses were not so short and instructors on training dives actually spent time training rather than just diving with the student they would have better skills before getting certified. But then some agencies wouldn't be able to sell that extra Peak Buoyancy performance cert

So a friend wanted to try scuba in his backyard pool. Well the poor SOB near drowned without getting his hair wet!
I almost fell in I was laughing so hard.
He couldn't handle the thought of breathing underwater. He'd jump up coughing and laughing everytime his mask broke the surface.
For some, scuba is an incredible mental challenge!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

For some, scuba is an incredible mental challenge!

That’s why I recommend/share the exercises I got from @Peter Guy. Just start with a snorkel, and then a mask. I then go into skin diving and then scuba. Break it up and build momentum/confidence.

 

[ginti]

Maybe if the courses were not so short and instructors on training dives actually spent time training rather than just diving with the student they would have better skills before getting certified. But then some agencies wouldn't be able to sell that extra Peak Buoyancy performance cert

Long courses are not possible when you pay instructors; it would be too expensive.

I can see only three options:
1 - learn in a club, where instructors don't get paid
2 - learn "how to learn", that is a course in which the instructor gives you honest feedback and tells you how to improve after the course (both in the case of sufficient and not sufficient skills)
3 - learn just what you can during the course, period; then, if you are not satisfied, you pay for another course, and another, and another (read: specialities)

I cannot see other possibilities. It turns out that the current market covers all these options:
- Option 1 is the case of agencies like BSAC, FFESSM, etc.
- Option 2 is the case of "DIR" agencies, but my perception is that this sector is expanding.
- Option 3 the one of mainstream agencies.
However, it seems that the "club culture" is more active in Europe than everywhere else... could you guys confirm?

Also, instructors from mainstream agencies can switch to option 2 if they want, as soon as they satisfy the standard of their own agency.

This wide variety means that, if one wants to achieve excellent trim control, there are not many excuses nowadays

 

[wKkaY]

Our GUE club once did a dive with seals, and we were all so flagrantly out of trim watching them swim circles all around us, that I made a card to celebrate how out of character we were as GUE divers

 

[Angelo Farina]

That’s why I recommend/share the exercises I got from @Peter Guy. Just start with a snorkel, and then a mask. I then go into skin diving and then scuba. Break it up and build momentum/confidence.

That is the old way of training... 1 month in the pool without even mask or fins, Then snorkelling and fin-swimming another month, and freediving a third month. Then CC rebreather (ARO) for two months, and finally an OC air system for one month.
As said, this method was effective, but almost impossible to propose just now, even in club-based training (no-profit organizations).

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

Yours IS The way of LEARNING Angelo for those parties interested in proficiency, and for those fortunate enough to have had the bug bite early, rounded parents that make time and understand that water skills are important and that starts with swimming in the bathtub, and breathhold diving with no mask eyes open, then one Christmas you get goggles and maybe a couple later a snorkel then as you maintain your passion, flippers.

For those that come later, you make time and with all the readily available information it is solely the decision of the diver to educate themselves or remain novice for the rest of their what must be sometimes somewhat unsatisfying diving adventures

For those millions of divers that make a mess underwater much to the chagrin of the despairing, don't worry the next storm will put everything right again

 

[beester]

I'm a IANTD tech instructor and a GUE T2/C2 diver with a rebreather....

Like my trim?? This was during a 50m dive with about 30 min deco. And we were playing around... going upside down, purging valves of regs, lying on top of the double set of my buddy, removing stuff from each others pockets... basically ******* around after a video dive on a Croatian wreck.

Don't take diving or dive agencies too seriously. Yes I believe 100% that good trim and buyancy are the basics of being a good diver. You can't be one without that being sorted out, and if it's not yet sorted out getting some training on it and solving this puzzle will improve your diving immensly. With a good trim and buoyancy you could almost fall a sleep during a long blue water deco... because you are rock solid in the water. Does that mean being anal retentive about 100% Horizontal... nope... BUT!! if you are diving a hogarthian setup (so BP/Wing) with a double set, you'll notice that the most stable position with this setup, which is rock solid and costs the least amount of effort, is more or less horizontal (horizontal meaning for me 0° to 30° of horizontal).

Also don't think that 100% horizontal has any use in caves or wrecks... wrecks and caves don't tend to be 100% horizontal... in caves or wrecks were a silt out is possible, you should try to be in trim, but it depends what the surrounding is... if the floor of the cave is at 30° you should be too (specially if it's a narrow area).

I don't believe there are ANY GUE instructors at this moment, outside of class, anal retentive about being 100% horizontal. In fact I can remember very well a T2+ dive where a GUE instructor started clipping off empty stages on my ass D-ring (without me knowing at first) totally messing with my trim and making me very butt light (very uncomfortable hanging in blue water without reference)... with more than 90 min of deco to go What I can see and have seen are, just out of class, fundies students being anal retentive to other divers about how 100% horizontal trim is SOOOOOOO important because it makes you a leed (elite) diver

Cheers,

PS: can't believe there are 20+ pages with comments on something so silly (and now I've contributed as well, silly me).
PPS: can't believe that I said "anal retentive" so much in 1 post. I must be anal!