Thinking of buying a boat, need License?

[AZdiver1279]

Hello all -

I'm considering (well, to be honest, I've made up my mind, just not ready yet) buying a boat, not immediately but probably within 18 months or so (I have a lot of homework to do). I have just barely started looking at boats online to try to educate myself on the types of boats. When I do decide on the type of boat I would like something that is versatile (can dive from, can spend a long weekend on, is sea worthy, something I could tour the FL Keys with or run out to Bahamas, etc).

I've done some preliminary searches but do not completely understand some of what I've found. So, I have a few questions for those knowledgeable on the subject. I just want to get pointed in the right direction so I can see what's required and be in a better position to be a boat owner and safely take care of passengers (which would mostly be family/friends/dive buddies).

1) If I own my own boat do I need any type of operators license? (I'm currently in AZ but also would like to be able to boat in FL as well).
2) Does the number of passengers have any bearing?
3) Where could one get instruction on boat navigation, etc?
4) What other suggestions would you give to someone who will be buying there first boat? (other thant the obvious such as have a mechanic check out the boat)

I did spend a few years in the Navy but that was a long time ago and I was a Seabee so I wasn't around boats too much and never was assigned to a ship. I have though had the opportunity to take the helm a few times throughout the years but none-the-less I would like to take a boating safety course (like a defensive driving course of sorts) if such a thing is available.

Thanks for any replies.........

 

[OBXDIVEGUY]

Licensing is a state by state regulation. I don't know about AZ, but it is not required in FL (sometimes I wish it was).

Number of passengers is dictacted by the manufacturer's capacity plate. It doesn't affect if you need a license or not. Now, if you are receiving any compensation from those passengers, then you need a CG Captain's license. When I say any compenstation, I mean just that. Technically, by the word of the law, if someone splits the gas with you, you're supposed to be licensed. Now, will that actually be enforced, no. But if you are charging folks to come out with you like a charter boat, then absolutely, you need a captain's license. The captain's license will then dictate along with the capacity of the boat, how many passengers you can have. It is a pretty lengthy process to even qualify for a captain's license. (I used to be intimately involved in the licensing process and enforcement)

To get recreational boating instruction, track down your local US Power Squadron. The US Coast Guard Aux also does a great class. Often times, if you do take a boating course, you will get a break on your insurance.

As far as advice, take your time and do your research. You can actually join the Power Squadron or Auxiliary without a boat. They can teach you everything you'd want to know and you get the bonus of learning about everyone else's boats.

Good luck!

 

[AZdiver1279]

Licensing is a state by state regulation. I don't know about AZ, but it is not required in FL (sometimes I wish it was).

Number of passengers is dictacted by the manufacturer's capacity plate. It doesn't affect if you need a license or not. Now, if you are receiving any compensation from those passengers, then you need a CG Captain's license. When I say any compenstation, I mean just that. Technically, by the word of the law, if someone splits the gas with you, you're supposed to be licensed. Now, will that actually be enforced, no. But if you are charging folks to come out with you like a charter boat, then absolutely, you need a captain's license. The captain's license will then dictate along with the capacity of the boat, how many passengers you can have. It is a pretty lengthy process to even qualify for a captain's license. (I used to be intimately involved in the licensing process and enforcement)

To get recreational boating instruction, track down your local US Power Squadron. The US Coast Guard Aux also does a great class. Often times, if you do take a boating course, you will get a break on your insurance.

As far as advice, take your time and do your research. You can actually join the Power Squadron or Auxiliary without a boat. They can teach you everything you'd want to know and you get the bonus of learning about everyone else's boats.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

Ok, I will look up those organizations and pursue any help they can provide.

One question about the captains license, I saw that there was a six pack license. So, to take more than six passengers you need a masters license? Also, I would not be doing charters so to speak but I might charge for dive related services, is that all lumped together and does dive service compensation equate to charter compensation? I guess that kills the idea of having buddies split the gas to Grand Bahama huh? I'll have to get it out of them another way

Thanks again.

 

[Nemrod]

Thanks for the reply!

Ok, I will look up those organizations and pursue any help they can provide.

One question about the captains license, I saw that there was a six pack license. So, to take more than six passengers you need a masters license? Also, I would not be doing charters so to speak but I might charge for dive related services, is that all lumped together and does dive service compensation equate to charter compensation? I guess that kills the idea of having buddies split the gas to Grand Bahama huh? I'll have to get it out of them another way

Thanks again.

Private boats not operated for commercial/for hire can split expenses and the owner operator does NOT need a captain's license. This is long established. However, charging people a fee is not the same as splitting fuel or food or beer and that is a violation. You will not qualify for a captains license--not for a long time. You can carry as many people as fit up to the capacity plate on your boat.

A six pack operation, for hire, requires a licensed skipper and numerous other requirements and some expensive insurance as well.

There are plenty of books, Chapman's for example, that provide the required knowledge to operate a boat, a CG Aux course will be helpful. The school of hard knocks works but can be painful.

You cannot "charge" for dive related services unless you are an instructor or dive professional and have a licensed captain on board.

I used to live in Phoenix, that is a long ways from the Bahamas.

When buying a used boat, get a licensed surveyor with good credentials/recommendations before giving over any money other than a small deposit for hold contingent upon a clean survey.

N

 

[dannobee]

Nemrod is correct. US Congress clarified the law a few years ago to "sharing the costs of the day." Fuel, oil, launch fees, etc. can be shared with fellow passengers. The test for voluntary contributions is usually that if you give money at the end of the day, it's voluntary as you've already been on the trip.

If you intend to charge for chartering, you'll need a six pack license or higher. The USCG issues these licenses and including having a minimum amount of "sea time" and passing a written test.

 

[OBXDIVEGUY]

You're correct, a 6 pack is for 6 or less. To take more you need a master's license. However, now with more than 6 passengers, the vessel needs to be inspected and certified for it. Not an easy or inexpensive process.

 

[suprasteve]

Free BoatUS Foundation Online Boating Safety Course
that site should help out with a lot of your questions as well, I took the boating safety course off of it back in the day...

 

[AZdiver1279]

Private boats not operated for commercial/for hire can split expenses and the owner operator does NOT need a captain's license. This is long established. However, charging people a fee is not the same as splitting fuel or food or beer and that is a violation. You will not qualify for a captains license--not for a long time. You can carry as many people as fit up to the capacity plate on your boat.

A six pack operation, for hire, requires a licensed skipper and numerous other requirements and some expensive insurance as well.

There are plenty of books, Chapman's for example, that provide the required knowledge to operate a boat, a CG Aux course will be helpful. The school of hard knocks works but can be painful.

You cannot "charge" for dive related services unless you are an instructor or dive professional and have a licensed captain on board.

I used to live in Phoenix, that is a long ways from the Bahamas.

When buying a used boat, get a licensed surveyor with good credentials/recommendations before giving over any money other than a small deposit for hold contingent upon a clean survey.

N

Nemrod -

Thanks!

Ok, so as long as I'm not charging a fee I need no license of any type. I just need to stay within the listed passenger limits of the vessel. Seems odd that people have to get a license for a car but we don't need one to operate a water vessel.

My intentions are not to do anything really commercially with my vessel (although I'm just finishing up my DM and plan to have OWI within the next 24 mo) but just so I understand here's a couple of examples;

If I wanted to take divers out on a discover local diving (and charge for it) or a DSD I would have to have a licensed captain at the helm, correct?

I would also have to have had the vessel inspected and approved first, correct? So, it wouldn't really matter if there was a captain at the helm or actually more likely I wouldn't be able to get a captain at the helm if the vessel didn't have the required inspections????????????

If that's the case it's all well and good, the intended purpose is for personal use anyway.

As for a being long way from Bahamas.......well that's part of the issue with PHX....it's home and I love it but it's a long way from any ocean....FL is close to a lot of good diving.....thus the interest in part time and possible/eventual fulltime residency in FL.

Thanks again!

 

[Nemrod]

Nemrod -

Thanks!

Ok, so as long as I'm not charging a fee I need no license of any type. I just need to stay within the listed passenger limits of the vessel. Seems odd that people have to get a license for a car but we don't need one to operate a water vessel.

My intentions are not to do anything really commercially with my vessel (although I'm just finishing up my DM and plan to have OWI within the next 24 mo) but just so I understand here's a couple of examples;

If I wanted to take divers out on a discover local diving (and charge for it) or a DSD I would have to have a licensed captain at the helm, correct?

I would also have to have had the vessel inspected and approved first, correct? So, it wouldn't really matter if there was a captain at the helm or actually more likely I wouldn't be able to get a captain at the helm if the vessel didn't have the required inspections????????????

If that's the case it's all well and good, the intended purpose is for personal use anyway.

As for a being long way from Bahamas.......well that's part of the issue with PHX....it's home and I love it but it's a long way from any ocean....FL is close to a lot of good diving.....thus the interest in part time and possible/eventual fulltime residency in FL.

Thanks again!

Well, you can do some more checking and I am sure others will jump in but to my best knowledge, no, you cannot take divers or customers on discovery dives or check out dives for a fee even if the fee is for the instruction or DM duties and not the boat per say. You are splitting hairs there and I suspect it will not split to your advantage should the authorities question you or misfortune come your way. You would have to have a licensed captain and the correct inspections for the class of boat.

Phoenix is close to So Cal, we went there often enough including to Catalina and the Gulf of California.

Some states do require a license but most operators are grandfathered even there. As to why you can operate a boat without a license but not a car or airplane, well, you may have a point but it is the way it is. .

Good luck, enjoy your new adventure. Boats are a wonderful as long as the family are on board with it. Have fun.

N

 

[NJ to FLA]

az diver
here is my recommendation as my family was in the same spot as you:
(until we found this site that is...)
www.southfloridayachts.com click boats for sale > sportfishing and pick your boat, make an offer, and wait to hear back. easy as that.