Top 5 Warm-Water Sidemount Fins

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Frog kick is ridiculously easy in FF. I thought the only assumed issue was with back-kick, due to the shape of FF.

Back-kick is probably more commonly utilised by open-water technical divers... at least, those who apply team diving and deco /ascent formations. A good back-kick is crucial for holding a controlled position relative to others, eliminating the need for endless 'pat-a-cake', or really annoying spiralling.

I use frog kick near-exclusively. I can't even remember the last time I used a flutter kick. My frog kick technique comes pretty much just from ankle rotation - it's tight, it works effectively in very confined spaces, and it enables a very efficient kick-glide momentum over distance.

My last student was a GUE Tech1 diver... and that's typical of the level of divers I routinely train. I doubt I'd get any students if my basic techniques ever 'failed'.

It's easy to blame equipment for skills deficit issues. Any diver with a modicum of decent propulsion / control skill can apply the full range of techniques in any fin.

The fins that do least to make fine control techniques more efficient (than barefoot) are of longer length and low rigidity.

Force Fins are short and relatively stiff... especially the 'Pro' and 'Tan Delta' versions.

It's fine to question the efficiency and function of certain kit. But why not consider that question answered, when given performance testimony by an experienced user who dives the kit frequently on a very high volume of advanced dives?

FF are my choice of fins for the dives I undertake...demanding sidemount technical wreck dives and teaching/demonstrating high quality overhead/tech fundamentals ... and I've been happy with them for over 15 years.

There's a huge difference between saying they're the best for me... rather than silly claims that they're the best period. So, please, don't over-think what I'm saying.

If FF didn't function impressively for fine control maneuvering, or offer sufficient power, I'd have changed to another brand/model thousands of dives ago...

At the same time, I fully appreciate that fin selection is a matter of individual preference and unique diving needs. I am privileged to be in a position where I get to test and trial all sorts of equipment, including fins.

There's many good fins on the market (and many not so good)...and I understand when experienced divers are enthusiastic about their personal choices.

Whilst bearing in mind a diver's relative experience and expertise, I'm usually inclined to believe the feedback they give on the kit they use.

At the same time, I've seen many instances of less expert divers suffering poor performance and either misaligning the cause of those issues on kit... or the opposite... blaming themselves for kit triggered performance issues.

Aotus - I don't really understand your angst on this issue. I'm not forcing you to change fins, or even critiquing your choice of fins. Merely correcting your assumptions on a fin that you, admittedly, have little-no experience with.

I'm not in the habit of lying or making things up... and I have no ulterior incentives to favor or recommend one fin over another.

As I said, I'll try to find time soon to take some video of FF in use for a variety of propulsion techniques. I don't get much opportunity to do cute 'demo' videos as I've got a hectic teaching schedule.
 
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I'm using heavy Jetfins with sidemount but - indeed - I have 2+2 lbs of shoulder weights.

I frequently run sidemount 'cross-overs' for experienced technical divers. Many use Jet Fins. To date, all have experienced trim issues because of the buoyancy characteristics of the Jet Fins.

As a caveat... this is wetsuit, not drysuit, diving... using aluminium cylinders.

Changing to a less negatively buoyant fin is absolutely more preferable to adding weight around your rig.

Thankfully, there's now plenty of Jet Fin alternatives that provide comparable performance but have near-neutral buoyancy characteristics.
 
Frog kick is ridiculously easy in FF.
show us then. Some people seem to have a lot of trouble with it... but I know, you have a lot to say about them...


Back-kick is probably more commonly utilised by open-water technical divers... at least, those who apply team diving and deco /ascent formations. A good back-kick is crucial for holding a controlled position relative to others, eliminating the need for endless 'pat-a-cake', or really annoying spiralling.
Cave divers use back-kick quite a bit, actually, especially when exploring or photographing.


I use frog kick near-exclusively. I can't even remember the last time I used a flutter kick. My frog kick technique comes pretty much just from ankle rotation - it's tight, it works effectively in very confined spaces, and it enables a very efficient kick-glide momentum over distance.
an ankle-only frog kick ("modified frog kick") does not provide the thrust of a typical, full-leg frog kick. If that's your only option to produce force with FFs, I rest my case. This version of the frog kick is really only good for tight spaces and small movements, not for a primary mode of swimming.


It's easy to blame equipment for skills deficit issues. Any diver with a modicum of decent propulsion / control skill can apply the full range of techniques in any fin.
Insults? ok, still waiting to see that video.


The fins that do least to make fine control techniques more efficient (than barefoot) are of longer length and low rigidity. Force Fins are short and relatively stiff... especially the 'Pro' and 'Tan Delta' versions.
The Diverite fins are long and stiff, and are excellent for all maneuvers. Length is better for force, worse for confined spaces. How are you getting this wrong? As a cave diver I would love a fin that was short and maneuverable while still producing a lot of force in my preferred kicks (primarily frog). That is the unicorn I am hunting. If you say that's the force fins, all I need is a video that counters all the reviews and videos I've seen so far and I'll be pulling out my credit card!


It's fine to question the efficiency and function of certain kit.
Is it fine? because I did just that and you said this:
I believe that the negative claims about FF stem entirely from divers who've used one type of fins (i.e. Jets) for a long time... and then 'try' FF for a very short time. FF require an adapted technique and those divers aren't skilled to quickly understand and adapt to the technique needed.... so they can explain away their failure by blaming the equipment...Any diver with a modicum of decent propulsion / control skill can apply the full range of techniques in any fin.


But why not consider that question answered, when given performance testimony by an experienced user who dives the kit frequently on a very high volume of advanced dives?
So...what am I to do here? You say they work..but...
I've used ff pros on at least 1000 dives, they're great and they back-kick better than any other fin I have used. However, in frog kick they don't have much thrust at all due to their shape. They're designed to kick down very effectively, not to kick up ... and you're basically kicking up when frog kicking.


Aotus - I don't really understand your angst on this issue. I'm not forcing you to change fins, or even critiquing your choice of fins. Merely correcting your assumptions on a fin that you, admittedly, have little-no experience with.
Angst? no. This is what I said: "Show me one video of someone performing an effective frog kick with force fins, please, I'm anxious to see that it isn't the worst fin out there for sidemount." And, despite your suggestions that I and others I know are making "stupid claims" and "aren't skilled to quickly understand and adapt to the technique needed.... so they can explain away their failure by blaming the equipment...," and lack "a modicum of decent propulsion / control skill," I am very interested to see any evidence that you have some idea of what you're talking about with these fins because I WILL buy them if they work like you say.


Now, to help you understand, and others who read this, why I am skeptical. Take a look to these failed attempts:

From ForceFin themselves
Granted, the diver didn't look like they had any experience frog kicking.

Here's one that shows several peculiar attempts at frog if you watch the whole thing

Here's a good one (at least the first section...get's a little lazy at the end)
 
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Here's one that shows several peculiar attempts at frog if you watch the whole thing


That's DevonDiver, but I assume you know that :D (at least, it's his website)
 
Andy, for my ignorance, I dive Mares Power Plana, with drysuit when in Europe and just swiming trunks in Curacao, I don't notice any difference, I kind of understand not using light fins with a drysuit but don't see why you should used heavy ones in tropical waters.

I will use next time I dive my first set of fins here in Curacao that are Cressi frog plus and see if I notice something different in my trim.
 
It's the same reason not to use heavy fins with no suit... too little buoyancy at the feet, makes trim a bit harder. Now I don't care, I have light fins all the time and no issues with trim...


edit: Basically, light fins + drysuit = light feet. Heavy fins + no suit = heavy feet
 
I guess, I have floaty feet, because I don't see or feel any difference in tropical waters.

I will give it a try anyways with the Cressi fins and see if I notice somwthing different.
 
I don't know if I'm perciving it wrong but in the videos of the Force fins, it seems there is not much speed/propulsion with the frog kick the divers desplacement seems slow.
 
I don't know if I'm perciving it wrong but in the videos of the Force fins, it seems there is not much speed/propulsion with the frog kick the divers desplacement seems slow.

Why would a diver opt for frog kick if speed was their desired goal?

Frog kick has two uses:

1. Efficient propulsion. Low energy demand / low exertion to cover distance efficiently. Normally via 'kick and glide'.

2. Non-silting propulsion. Eliminating up/down water displacement to prevent disruption of materials in the environment.

Modified frog kick has 1 use: efficient propulsion without sitting in a confined environment.

Judging 'speed' as a measure of a given fins frog kick performance is a flawed assessment. Efficiency of motion is what should be assessed.

Judging speed from videos where subject divers aren't rising to achieve speed is an even more flawed assessment.
 
an ankle-only frog kick ("modified frog kick") does not provide the thrust of a typical, full-leg frog kick. If that's your only option to produce force with FFs, I rest my case.

I didn't say it was the only option. I said it was my normal option.

I'd guess I've got about 6-7000 hours in force fins to date... so my technique is quite efficient. I cruise nicely with only an ankle movement.... faster than those I dive with, I need to moderate speed to keep positioning.

The point being... If you can propel effectively and efficiently with such a minimal movement in the fins, how can the fins be accused of ineffectiveness?

This version of the frog kick is really only good for tight spaces and small movements, not for a primary mode of swimming.

Sometimes it's beneficial to recognise the difference between what you can't do... and what can't be done.

Or maybe you're assuming such poor performance because heavy Jet Fins etc cannot provide an efficient cruise through a very minimalist stroke technique?

The Diverite fins are long and stiff, and are excellent for all maneuvers.

Apparently not, given what you just stated about minimalist efficiency maneuvers and strokes.

... despite your suggestions that I and others I know are making "stupid claims" and "aren't skilled to quickly understand and adapt to the technique needed...

Take a look to these failed attempts:....

Here's one that shows several peculiar attempts at frog if you watch the whole thing

As I said... If people don't understand the technique needed, then they'll not recognise what's working.

I've stated many times that Force Fins need a variation on technique, compared to paddle type fins. You're seeing a varied technique and assuming it's a 'failed' technique.

Frog kick in Force Fins differs to the technique needed with paddle-type fins.

Different is not 'failed'.

If you try to use Force Fins identically to how you'd dive Jet Fins etc, then you'll obviously struggle. There are technical nuances... and those nuances aren't 'failures', because the end result is efficient.

You are, I assume, aware that I'm not only using frog kick in that (old) video?

I intend no insult by pointing out that there's elements of modified flutter, toe scull, helicopter etc used also.

The point of my video was to show effective spatial movement through confined spaces, not to specifically demo fin kick technique... and certainly not to demo techniques applicable to other styles of fin.

I'm really not motivated to 'sell' anyone on Force Fins. I don't need an ego-boost by championing anything. I merely think that misperceptions should be corrected... especially as others might be looking for balanced advice (which is all I attempt to provide).

Force Fins are probably a bad idea for divers who believe there's only one way to do things... and would persist in misusing the fins using inappropriate techniques applicable to other... different... fin designs.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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