Torn Between Two Computers

[MaxE]

This post points out something I learned years ago working in the airline-travel industry. A customer who has a bad experience will tell as many people about the horrid issue. A customer who has a good experience tends to share that information with a small group of people in their inner circle. This explains why one can see so many negative comments online. Sadly, many people are not aware of this and think what they read online or hear from others is the norm.

But I still sold that computer as fast as I could and at a substantial discount.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

I actually have owned a Suunto Cobra for over 21 years and it has never given me a seconds of trouble. I used it on a Blackbeard's liveaboard where I did 20 dives in 51/2 days and it never locked me out or shortened any of my dives. Their faulty depth sensors are ancient history. If you look closer on here, you will see Shearwater has had very recent problems with depth sensors, a bad batch of batteries and screens that stopped working on new out of the box computers. Good customer service doesn't change that fact.

 

[formernuke]

I actually have owned a Suunto Cobra for over 21 years and it has never given me a seconds of trouble. I used it on a Blackbeard's liveaboard where I did 20 dives in 51/2 days and it never locked me out or shortened any of my dives. Their faulty depth sensors are ancient history. If you look closer on here, you will see Shearwater has had very recent problems with depth sensors and screens that stopped working on new out of the box computers. Good customer service doesn't change that fact.

I haven't had an issue with my perdix. The difference is from the reports I've gotten Shearwater owns up there mistakes, suunto denied there problems until forced to admit it in a class action lawsuit.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

I haven't had an issue with my perdix. The difference is from the reports I've gotten Shearwater owns up there mistakes, suunto denied there problems until forced to admit it in a class action lawsuit.[/Q

This was a long time go, how many years are we going to drag this up, time to let it go.

 

[formernuke]

If they didn't want a well deserved bad reputation they should have treated there customers better.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Well I got burned by suunto, I will not repeat my mistake and will recommend others not to repeat it.

 

[MaxE]

I actually have owned a Suunto Cobra for over 21 years and it has never given me a seconds of trouble. I used it on a Blackbeard's liveaboard where I did 20 dives in 51/2 days and it never locked me out or shortened any of my dives. Their faulty depth sensors are ancient history. If you look closer on here, you will see Shearwater has had very recent problems with depth sensors, a bad batch of batteries and screens that stopped working on new out of the box computers. Good customer service doesn't change that fact.

I didn’t think my Cobra was shortening my dives either until I was running another computer with a different algorithm, then I noticed a substantial difference on dive two of a day.

 

[Zef]

I didn’t think my Cobra was shortening my dives either until I was running another computer with a different algorithm, then I noticed a substantial difference on dive two of a day.

The Suunto algorithm is, put simply, conservative. You cant mix it with a computer with a less conservative algorithm and not experience what you did.

The conservativeness of the Suunto algorithm is an attempt to make a dive computer that keeps the average recreational diver safe. Multiple dives over multiple days increases risk to the diver. Scaling back time at depth during a multi-dive scenario is one way to address this increased risk. Also, increasing conservativeness based on diver error such as rapid ascents or missed mandatory stops is another way to reduce risk.

Is it the perfect solution? Perhaps or perhaps not. Suunto's target segment of the market is not the same as Shearwater's target segment of the market. Yes, one can dive a computer for tech diving for recreational diving, just as one can drive an F1 race car to and from work every day, but it was not specifically designed for that purpose.

I am not.statong that either company, or any company makes a bad or better computer, and despite owning a bunch of suunto computers, I am not specifically partial to them...we have them, they work, do everything we need and more, as I am sure most any computer on the market would.

It just gets tiring reading the same argument in every thread where suunto's algorithm is mentioned...rhey didnt sneak it up on you, it was designed that way on purpose.

How much more bottom time does one actually get diving a computer with a buhlman algorithm? Is the increased bottom time on a multi-dive over multi-day trip worth the increased risk? And please do not read that I am implying that Shearwater or any company using buhlman algorithm variants are putting the diver at risk...I am stating that the more extensive the nitrogen loading the more conservative the diver should be to avoid as much ad possible an "undesserved hit". Just because a less conservstive computer indicates a greater amount of bottom time, it does not mean one should be diving every minute of it.

Again, not a suunto fanboy, but this oft repeated argument that their computers limit the diver just comes across a bit specious...it is kind of like comparing a screwdriver to a drill. They both have a purpose, one just needs to recognise the purpose and the appropriateness for the application.

-Z

 

[scubadada]

Suunto has a couple of different flavors of their deco algorithm. The basic algorithm is Suunto RGBM, this is on the Vytec. On the 1st, clean dive, the algorithm is solid middle of the road, moderate. There are many items that reduce the NDL on repetitive dives, short SI. quick ascent, perhaps sawtooth profiles or reverse profiles. There is no doubt that the repetitive dive NDL might be shortened.

The Core, Steel, D5 have Suunto Fused or Fused 2 RGBM. These computers can be as liberal as GF high of 95 or DSAT. I hear the repetitive dive NDL is equally liberal.

 

[GRH]

Suunto has a couple of different flavors of their deco algorithm. The basic algorithm is Suunto RGBM, this is on the Vytec. On the 1st, clean dive, the algorithm is solid middle of the road, moderate. There are many items that reduce the NDL on repetitive dives, short SI. quick ascent, perhaps sawtooth profiles or reverse profiles. There is no doubt that the repetitive dive NDL might be shortened.

The Core, Steel, D5 have Suunto Fused or Fused 2 RGBM. These computers can be as liberal as GF high of 95 or DSAT. I hear the repetitive dive NDL is equally liberal.

3.2 Selecting personal setting

Personal setting is available in Suunto FusedTM RGBM 2 dive algorithm. The five step personal setting can be used to adjust the algorithm conservatism to fit your DCS susceptibility. You can find the setting under Dive settings » Parameters » Personal.

Personal Level Explanation

More aggressive (-2) Ideal conditions, excellent physical fitness, highly experienced with a lot of dives in the near past

Aggressive (-1) Ideal conditions, good physical fitness, well experienced with dives in the near past

Default (0) Ideal conditions (default value)

Conservative (+1) Some risk factors or conditions exist

More conservative (+2) Several risk factors or conditions exist

WARNING: Personal setting 0, -1 or -2 causes a high risk of DCS, or other personal injury, and death.

For Bühlmann 16 GF dive algorithm the conservative setting is adjusted using Gradient Factors. By default conservative setting is 30/70.

WARNING: Do not edit Gradient Factor values until you understand the effects

http://ns.suunto.com/Manuals/EONSte...N-Steel-Safety-and-Regulatory-Information.pdf

 

[Centrals]

At about the same price point, one could also acquire a Suunto Vyper. As I understand it, the Vyper is good unit and adds a few things the Peregrine does not have, like a compass and the ability to add air integration at a later point, which I would enjoy so that I could monitor my air use progress. Given the legendary New England visibility, a compass seems like it would come in handy too.
A good thing to know about me is that I am not much of an upgrader. I tend to do my research, spend a bit more than bargain basement, and keep things for a long time. If I chose the Peregrine, I will not be upgrading it soon. The Vyper strikes me as something I can grow into, but perhaps at the cost of some quality and the legendary Shearwater customer support.

Nothing is perfect.
Price(~$450.00) is NOT an issue.
Suunto has packed more eg. compass and AI. But not everyone cup of tea for various reasons mentioned. The worst is the after sale service once the product past the warranty period.
Shearwater has impeccable reputation especially the after sale service.

Is there any alternative around the same price?

My usual suggestion to beginner diver is to choose a cheapo to start with. Do not overthinking the immediate issue. Worst comes to the worst, keep the cheapo as a back up in the future if you decided to "up-grade".

Good luck.