Tough love for the industry's lithium addiction

[dmaziuk]

So why bother with 18650's?

Eneloops aren't the cheapest counterfeit junk you can find, and you probably aren't using a cheapest crap charger. Similarly if you buy decent 18650s and a proper charger, they don't blow up.

 

[tarponchik]

Eneloops aren't the cheapest counterfeit junk you can find, and you probably aren't using a cheapest crap charger. Similarly if you buy decent 18650s and a proper charger, they don't blow up.

I do understand the "pay less" part. I do not understand the "more energy" part, except for the camera batteries.

 

[dmaziuk]

I do understand the "pay less" part. I do not understand the "more energy" part, except for the camera batteries.

My understanding is, they spew electrons fast enough for cars, vaporizers, scooters, etc., under "spikey" load, and at uniform rate from fully charged to almost empty. I think the only other battery that gets close is lead-acid but they're heavy. And full of sulfuric acid.

A flashlight's drain is constant and relatively low. About the only difference there is my charger only has 4 slots and couldn't recharge 6 eneloops at once. I can recharge 2 18650s.

 

[NAM001]

The Lithium battery issue should be approached like airlines do. All battery charging is monitored one way or another. On a boat all you'd need a a charging station where all battery charging takes place. It could be semi enclosed with smoke and heat detectors that shut off power to all charging stations if trouble develops. The station needs to be equipped with a water extinguisher (yes water) and a fire sock to place a hot or burning battery in after it is cooled. Heat resistant gloves should be stored nearby. All battery charging should be stopped or trickle charged when batteries are full.
It should also be mandatory to have human supervision 24/7 of not only the boat but the charging. That may be the watch on the boat would need to closely monitor the charging as he monitors the rest of the boat.

I think your ideas are a bit extreem at his time if the reason there are fires is fast charging. The designated charging area is good and makes sense in any case. Encloses areas may not be a good idea if ventilation is all that is needed to vent gass and cool batteries through convection. We cant jump to remidies phase over limited incidents. It is better to have the right solution rather than a bunch of them that may or may not be useful. there are costs to many of these actions. Such as if you charge you must bring your own UL approved enclosed container to charge in. If that was the rule then I think peoples opinion of whether a container was really needed would change at 100 a pop. Probably the most effective way would be to say no charging of removable batteries at all and to bring spare batteries if they are replaceable. That has its ups and downs also. If you said all charging had to be done in a charging area then as I have seen there is not enough plugs to do that. Probably would require a lot of red tape to get 20 outlets for passengers to plug into at an acceptable location or to authorize multi plug extention cords to be used. 6 items plugged into one outlet/ power strips.

 

[NAM001]

Not totally trustworthy, but better than the red/green light clone charger on the left. The Nitecore has an LCD panel display that indicates charging rate, charging progress and evaluates if the cell is a dud or has become one. It will refuse to charge dangerous cells. The white no-name charger will cheerfully try to charge anything.
View attachment 540761

this is the kind of info that is poductive.

 

[NAM001]

My understanding is that if they have to vent, they may vent fire, i.e. vents don't make them "safe".

FWIW half of my Ultrafires are now at the point where a fresh charge doesn't last long enough for a bike ride home in the evening, but they took a few years to get there. Using a nitecore charger with just the LEDs, no fancy display -- amazingly, no fires to date!

I woud think that is probably true. I would also think you could fast charge under most conditions. It only takes a couple that are damaged to make it unsafe to use fast charging, IMO. Deffinatly we need all the valid info in these events to prescribe the proper mitigating actions. Also the answer if probably very afforable. We just have to find the right answer.

 

[dmaziuk]

Also the answer if probably very afforable. We just have to find the right answer.

Where I work we get shown pix like these, to make The Right Answer blindingly obvious:

https://blog.dotcom-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/eww.jpg
https://blog.dotcom-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/do-not-touch.jpg
https://lh3.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/.../s640/rtyjuy6ujyujyujty.jpg rtyjuy6ujyujyujty

 

[NAM001]

Where I work we get shown pix like these, to make The Right Answer blindingly obvious:

https://blog.dotcom-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/eww.jpg
https://blog.dotcom-monitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/do-not-touch.jpg
https://lh3.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/Sf4aj1gB8oI/AAAAAAABAN4/p1-0XGUMJXc/s640/rtyjuy6ujyujyujty.jpg rtyjuy6ujyujyujty

all very good pics of the wrong answer it appears.

 

[dmaziuk]

all very good pics of the wrong answer it appears.

I think there was a picture of a charging table in one of these threads that, if I were on that boat, I'd consider a few hours' swim in 70-ish-degree water in the dark a reasonable alternative to sleeping below decks there.

Edit: there you have it. https://www.scubaboard.com/community/attachments/465ce6c2-51e6-4767-b16d-d0a409372a91-jpeg.538812/

It's from @Wookie's post, and from his other posts I know he's a bit a*al about batteries and chargers on his boat. (In the good sense of the word, as we say in Russian.)

 

[MichaelMc]

On the clutter or space needed, instead of 20-30 chargers plus power cords. Would the boat be happier building in banks of 6+ cell chargers? Though that only handles cylinder type batteries. And people need to label batteries to reduce confusion, or maybe label and assign charger slot ranges.