Training

[Greg D.]

I am looking for some advise as to the specific course's I should take for PSD diving. I amd a newly certified diver (padi OW) in the Grant co. Sheriff Search and rescue unit(WA state). I belive experience teaches best and I dive with people in the unit every chance I get. what training courses will serve me best in SAR diving.

 

[Gary D.]

I am looking for some advise as to the specific course's I should take for PSD diving. I amd a newly certified diver (padi OW) in the Grant co. Sheriff Search and rescue unit(WA state). I belive experience teaches best and I dive with people in the unit every chance I get. what training courses will serve me best in SAR diving.

It will be best to check with your local team to see what kinds of diving they do. You could go off on your own and get the wrong training. Another thing to look at is it Rescue or Recovery or a combination of the two.

I know your area has a lot of desert and farming areas along with a few nasty deep lakes. It will take a wide variety of training over a long period of time to cover it all.

Read some of the post in the stories section and that might give you and idea of what you might encounter.

Good luck Greg and if you get involved with a team "DO NOT LET PEER PRESSURE PUSH YOU INTO DOING ANY DIVE ANYTIME".

Gary D.

 

[Greg D.]

Went to a SAR meeting last night and talke with the other divers and they puhed me away from getting any more cert cards from padi. Dive rescue I is the only course I really need to take as far as they are concerned. other than that they advised my best teacher would be bottom time, bottom time, bottom time

 

[Gary D.]

Went to a SAR meeting last night and talke with the other divers and they puhed me away from getting any more cert cards from padi. Dive rescue I is the only course I really need to take as far as they are concerned. other than that they advised my best teacher would be bottom time, bottom time, bottom time

On one hand they are right and on the other hand it could be questionable.

You do need to get at least DR1 and that is just the starter for PSD work. As far as other cards they are just that, cards. You can get the training w/o cards unless your a card collector and want them. I'm sure PADI or who ever else would like the $$.

They are right about the bottom time. The more you get the better which should improve comfort levels under water.

The problem with getting certs from classes like PADI, SSI or whoever is they are sometime (a lot of times) in conflect with PSD training. You do this in the civilian world but you do that in the PSD world.

An example would be "Plan your dive and dive your plan". Doesn't happen very often. Or buddy checks, "Buddies always check each other prior to a dive". Not going to happen during rescue work. The list goes on so you can see why it's either PSD or Sport training. Some people just can't adjust to the changes.

Gary D.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If a non-PSDer can but in for a minute...

Obviously recreational training doesn't nor is it designed to prepare a diver for PSD. Howeverm we've had two Fire department divers killed in non-agency sanctioned (best description for it I have) training excersizes in three years.

From what I understand this brought about some big changes. There's a number of recreational classes that can still be useful I would think like rescue or ice.

Also even though I'm not a police officer or firemen and therefor not a PSD I have been teaching diving for a long time and S&R callouts are no place for inexperienced divers...PERIOD.

Gary, you commented that in PSD you can't always plan your dive and dive your plan and buddies don't check eachother. here is where a braud range of diving experience might be useful because these are narrow views of the principles.

In cave or wreck exploration a dive plan is flexible because we don't always know what direction or even what depth we're going to. That doesn't mean that there isn't a plan. Critical parameters are planned and you stick to them such as max depth, gas management, sequence and team member functions.

While PADI teaches a buddy check, other agencies especially in more advanced diving teach "equipment matching". Divers don't really check each other but the main purpose of the excersize is to make sure that you have everything you need to do what you need to do. It can be done with one diver or 10.

Technical dive training is very much geared toward the planning and conduct of mission oriented dives. I would think this might have direct application and even if not I would have to believe that the experience would be worth it's weight in gold.

When you think of recreational or sport dive training don't limit your thinking to PADI. That's resort reef diving type stuff. There's a lot more available in sport dive training than that.

For instance we have organizations like the MTRT...Midwest Technical Recovery Team. They are a bunch of Technical divers (some with additional PSD training) who volunteer for technical recoveries that municiple teams aren't equiped or qualified to conduct like deep stuff.

There is also the IUCRR..International underwater cave rescue and recovery...who support minicipalities in recoveries (actually there have been a couple of rescues too) that envolve overhead environments like caves and flooded mines.

gregoire, there's a lot of stuff out there and I wouldn't ignore all of it if I were you because you need to learn diving really well.

 

[Gary D.]

Mike, You can but in here any time you want. This forum isn't restricted to us and I hope it never is. Other can learn (we can as well) from others. New blood bring new ideas.

Your post is very well put.

I would rather see one get Ice training through a PSD training rather than a civilian agency. They can get in each others way.

"S&R callouts are no place for inexperienced divers...PERIOD." You hit that nail on the head dead center with a sledge hammer.

We have lost more than 2 in the past 3 years. One training incident took 2 at once. Sad times for all.

Gary D.

 

[Greg D.]

What do you call and experienced diver? The guy who has made 4 dives a year in cozumel for the past 10 years would be lost if he dove arround here in the zero vis 46 degree water.

I am trying t log at least 4-5 dives a month, but just logging dives I dont feel is enough, I feel i need to be exposed to a wide variety of dive situations along with the bottom time. I am also currently try to get my hands on and read as much literature about diving as I can, I am currently reading the navy dive manual. the more I know before I get in the water the more I will get out of my dives.

I realize I am a newbie I dont dive if I dont feel comfortable with it. That said just because somebody has more experience than I do doesn't mean he is a better diver, for all the experience in the world can't make up for a lack of common sence!

Ive met people I wont dive with because I dont feel like exiting the gene pool that way

 

[Gary D.]

What do you call and experienced diver? The guy who has made 4 dives a year in cozumel for the past 10 years would be lost if he dove arround here in the zero vis 46 degree water.

I am trying t log at least 4-5 dives a month, but just logging dives I dont feel is enough, I feel i need to be exposed to a wide variety of dive situations along with the bottom time. I am also currently try to get my hands on and read as much literature about diving as I can, I am currently reading the navy dive manual. the more I know before I get in the water the more I will get out of my dives.

I realize I am a newbie I dont dive if I dont feel comfortable with it. That said just because somebody has more experience than I do doesn't mean he is a better diver, for all the experience in the world can't make up for a lack of common sence!

Ive met people I wont dive with because I dont feel like exiting the gene pool that way

QUOTE=gregoire]What do you call and experienced diver? The guy who has made 4 dives a year in cozumel for the past 10 years would be lost if he dove arround here in the zero vis 46 degree water.

4 dives a year over 50 years does not make an experienced diver. Nor does 100 dives a year in a swimming pool. It's kind of like putting out a stove top kitchen fire does not make you a fireman nor making a citizen arrest make you a LEO.

It's all based on comfort level under various situtations. If you feel comfortable at 6' in the pool after 20 years of diving but freak out in open water there is a problem. Feeling uneasy from time to time is normal if it is controlled.

It sounds like you have a good attitude about it and there is a lot of info in books to be had other than the Navy Diving Manual which isn't the best for PSD work.

We have had guys that have been diving for 20 years and submitted some impressive paperwork. BUT they have had under 100 dives in a 20 year period so they were politely excused from any interviews.

We have the luxury of working with future team members for at least a year before they can even apply. We get to see how they handle stress in life or death situtations before they can even think about applying for the team. Thats a big advantage.

Keep reading and see if the team will let you train or practice with them on a reserve or cadet type basis. And get knowledge from the Navy manual but be very flexable when it comes to training.

If you ever get over here give me a ring and I can show you around a little. Maybe even get wet. PM me with a number.

Gary D.

 

[Greg D.]

Gary D.
The navy dive manual is just what I have got my hands on, got any suggestions for good reading material?

 

[MikeFerrara]

What do you call and experienced diver? The guy who has made 4 dives a year in cozumel for the past 10 years would be lost if he dove arround here in the zero vis 46 degree water.

Wow, good question. The Cozumel guy doesn't get my nod as experienced...well except in cozumel reef diving. LOL

I'll try to put it in perspective. I've done a thousand+ dives. I'm an instructor fopr 2 agencies (I let my padi membership run out), I have just about every cert there is including cave and trimix with a max depth so far of 280ft. 95% of my diving has been cold water, less than great vis, the grat lakes and caves (including the zero vis ones in Kentucky that you have to climb a mountain to get to). It would look good on paper but I'm a total rookie next to many of the people I know. Not just rookie but newbee. It's all relative and probably doesn't correlate to the number of dives or the length of time you've been diving.

I am trying t log at least 4-5 dives a month, but just logging dives I dont feel is enough, I feel i need to be exposed to a wide variety of dive situations along with the bottom time. I am also currently try to get my hands on and read as much literature about diving as I can, I am currently reading the navy dive manual. the more I know before I get in the water the more I will get out of my dives.

Good plan. The additional only thing that I would suggest is to seek divers that you think are great and dive with them. If they are an instructor take a class from them...not because the clas is what you want but because time with them in and out of the water is what you want. I would point out that these people are rare...really rare.

I realize I am a newbie I dont dive if I dont feel comfortable with it. That said just because somebody has more experience than I do doesn't mean he is a better diver, for all the experience in the world can't make up for a lack of common sence!

Ive met people I wont dive with because I dont feel like exiting the gene pool that way

Being honest, the thing I worry about with dive team divers is whether they'll have the beans to call a dive on a call-out or training excersize when the dive is too much or the team isn't up to it for whatever reason. That's assuming that they even recognize the situation as a bad one.

The 2 PSD accidents that I've looked into were newish divers doing training that wasn't anything more than what we do in AOW classes all the time and they never should have happened.

I really like what Gary said about turning divers down or working with them for a while before they get on a the team. I see new OW divers with little or no additional training being accepted to a team and going out on call. I've taught Ice, S&R and AOW to guys already on teams and if I could have stopped them I would have. I've had guys come to me to get certified because they wanted on a team. I worry for them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't worry much if they're working with a team that has a plan, a budget and know what they're doing but that's not always the case. Some teams will take any one who is willing, give them junk equipment, incompetent training and send them out.

I'm ranting. Sorry.