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TheFoggyMask

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And also, the morallity of the antiquities trade and things you find personally. Lacking a sticky in this forum, or any kind of ongoing thread about this, I feel like I have to say something. Forgive me in advance if my thoughts seem disconnected or confusing, but I have an intense for wrecks and the like and their preservation.

I know that most people who will ever see wrecks or encounter significant remains are probably going to be well trained individuals with a respect for what they find, or treasure hunters of not so many years past rampaging, especially around Florida and areas rumored to have gold. If you are ever to encounter a wreck or find archealogical remains you have to understand that these are not the days of Jaques Cousteau and Dumas, Dumas in paticular who pillaged a great deal of things from wrecks, these items do not belong to you and should not be moved or removed. Even if you plan on donating them to the proper authorities, who will most likely be appaled that you have removed the object in the first place, it is still not acceptable.

The treasures that lie beneath my have a slight monitary value to buy you some beer and a good story, but their cultural significance is enormous. The scourge of genuine achaelogists is the treasure hunter; those who hunt for purely personal gain and glory by finding gold and other values with mailboxes, fixtures to the propellers of a boat which shoot water downwards into the substrate. This completely destroys the context of the artifacts but leaving the valuables intact to be collected. It destroys wood and other delicate remains that are really the bounty to be had. But you as a recrational or technical diver can cause damage to the sanctity of a wreck and its culturally significant value.

I have aquantiances who are fairly well off DIR divers who frequent such sites and work at times with SCRET, Submerged Cultural Resources Explortaion Team. They work hard to preserve these sites, and often times sadly note the removal of significant portions of a wreck. Not only have you damaged historical evidence, but desecrated the site for future divers generations to come. Florida maritime history in paticular has taken incredible blows due to selfish actions as such.

Although by and large government officials have been convinced that allowing commerical treasure hunters to loot sites is unacceptblae, I'm sure that unscrupulous individuals feel the need for a souvenier or conversation peice from a wreck that, in their minds, has no owner but the sea. That wreck does belong to someone, it belongs to me and everyone else in a world much bigger than yourself. Keep your hands to yourself and take home pictures and memories, as clique as it is.

In short, it really burns my ***.
 
Let's see, if I ever was lucky enough to discover a spanish galleon off the coast of Florida, with gold and emeralds as a cargo.

Would I
A) Immediately notify a government authority, so they could prohibit my diving on it.
B) Keep my mouth shut and work it.
C) Buy drinks for the house and tell everyone I know

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!
 
Shows how much respect and care you have for anything but yourself.
 
Yeah your right... letting the government strip the wrecks of all the valuables is a better idea.
 
DawgDiver:
Yeah your right... letting the government strip the wrecks of all the valuables is a better idea.
I wouldn't get too exited by the original post. It is an old, tired, boring rhetorical
argument spewed by every " Protector of the Public Trust". I always get a chuckle
when I see it in print for the umpteenth time. Nothing original here!
 
Whenever anyone says the line "The *** belong to all of us" I suggest they do a little research into what economists call "The Tragedy of the Commons". It doesn't take much research, and it may just further their education in these matters...
 
TheFoggyMask:
They claim to be something they are not, archealogists are not in it for persute of gold, glory and cash as these imposters are.


You obviously know nothing about science and scientists, and the politics therein. Of course they are doing it for the glory, to make a discovery before anyone else. If they can bring up treasure, it's that much easier to get a grant.

You also ignore the fact that the wrecks are rotting away, and researchers don't have the resources to find them all. In the communities of dedicated amateurs there is a lot of 'passionate free labor' doing the work to locate these wrecks in the first place, before they disappear forever. If they need the lure of treasure to motivate them, hey, whatever will work. Because without them the wreck won't be found in the first place.

But, to address the real point of your post...Troll, Troll, Troll your boat...
 
*** Mod Post ***
Fellas, please keep this discussion civil.
Thank you.
*** Mod Post ***​
 
radinator:
You obviously know nothing about science and scientists, and the politics therein. Of course they are doing it for the glory, to make a discovery before anyone else. If they can bring up treasure, it's that much easier to get a grant.

You also ignore the fact that the wrecks are rotting away, and researchers don't have the resources to find them all. In the communities of dedicated amateurs there is a lot of 'passionate free labor' doing the work to locate these wrecks in the first place, before they disappear forever. If they need the lure of treasure to motivate them, hey, whatever will work. Because without them the wreck won't be found in the first place.

But, to address the real point of your post...Troll, Troll, Troll your boat...

Obviously, YOU don't understand that underwater wrecks reach and equilibrium with their enviroment and are stable for the most part by being covered with silt, partially buried, and cold water conditions for some wrecks. Things like wood don't last long underwater because of wood eating worms, but portions of them still remain buried under the sand and would remain pristine as long as they aren't disturbed. They, and their artifacts, only begin to decay once removed from the water or removed from their natural state. In order to properly exacvate and preserve the artifacts, it costs an incredible amount more than you can make by pawning off what you find to anitiquities dealers. And yes, you're right, the promise of getting "treasure" from the wreck does make is easier to get grants, but that doesn't give you permission to sell off peices of the past for your glory. While some archeaologists may be doing it for regonition I would wager that a far greater percentage of archealogists are doing it for the sake of cultural anthropolgy and knowledge.

As for Dennis's post, the very top of that website is a big flashing ad that says "Largest Selection Of Shipwreck Coins On The Internet." Legitimate, maybe, but that doesn't mean his practices are okay, and selling antiquities is definately NOT okay.

I think that you're all coming at this from an older perspective. "Back in the day" documentaries about glorified looters were probably what you're basing any of this on. As for amatures who put in 'passionate free labor,' its hardly "free" as they're doing it so they can loot the ship for their own purposes. You look down on looters of land based archeaology don't you(or do we differ in that as well)? So what makes the ocean a kind of finders keepers enviroment? Nothing, it isn't finders keepers, same rules.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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