Tying in without plastic bottles

[Marty Kolenut]

Look up an an anchor lifting ball. That ring is full proof, just deploy with an smb attached. Release at top of chain. Can be recovered when you pull in anchor. Really simple Actually. Can’t see how people are going to get tangled in it or cause a problem.

How do you initially get down to the wreck? The shot line (first thing thrown in when we are passing over the wreck) serves the first divers (the guy who's going to tie in) guide down to the wreck.

The ring is NOT fool proof. Read my posts. If you already have, then read them again. You are talking about something you have never tried, thats obvious. And the way you just described is by attaching an SMB won't work at all.

"Can’t see how people are going to get tangled in it or cause a problem"

Because you haven't done it.

 

[Ana]

I suppose this is one of those situations where "we've always done it this way"

So maybe, just maybe when you try a different way doesn't go perfect the first time and requires some fine tuning instead of F_it get the plastic bottle we know that works. If the SMB can be deployed using a bright line so divers can be aware there's a line around them on the way down and up?

The FFM is a bit of an investment but a cheap hydrophone is... well cheap. Around $150-250 you could get a small hydrophone capable of clearly receiving the noise of metal with metal. Agree with topside what # of bangs to convey the messages "Done" - "Not done"

You are right to a point getting frustrated because we don't get it, we are not there. And you are also right in looking for alternate solutions. Now please understand the WTF reaction because really.... WTF plastic bottle set a drift each time?

That procedure needs to stop sooner better than later.

 

[Tug]

Right .. same procedure .. so how do you signal "Tie In"?

We shoot the 25lb weight to the surface with a lift bag once we’re tied in.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Because sometimes there is a lot of slack in the downline before the line gets cleated to the boat. So imagine this. Wreck is at 90 feet. Line is 150' long (because its used for wrecks anywhere from 90 to 130' deep). So now you are tied in at 90'. The other end of the line is attached to a tuna ball floating on the surface. So it it a calm day (no wind blowing the tuna ball) all that slack line lays or is suspended in the water until it is pulled up and cleated on the boat. It can lay horizontally sometimes etc..

So this is how we approach the problem - our methods are based on those used in UK waters.

We use a grapple anchor/hook as our weight (you can knock these up out of ree bar if you want something disposable.

We either use a Wasted shot or a Top Tensioned shot See Pic below or use this link

The first pair down attach the shot to the wreck if it's a complete miss the shot comes up on a bag and the divers under a dsmb

The boat is never attached to the shot. for drops the boat moves along side and drops the divers (1..2..3.. go!) The boat is then free to maneuver especially to pic up divers.

On the ascent divers use the shot then shoot their dsmb for pick up - or shoot from the bottom. Last pair shoot the shot line on a lift bag when they descend or at end of dive depending on current/vis

We don't need to signal a tie in

 

[johndiver999]

How do you initially get down to the wreck? The shot line (first thing thrown in when we are passing over the wreck) serves the first divers (the guy who's going to tie in) guide down to the wreck.

The ring is NOT fool proof. Read my posts. If you already have, then read them again. You are talking about something you have never tried, thats obvious. And the way you just described is by attaching an SMB won't work at all.

"Can’t see how people are going to get tangled in it or cause a problem"

Because you haven't done it.

I have not done it. You get down to the wreck the same way you always do. The diver carries the ring and smb down with him. The smb is attached directly to the ring- no string to get tangled. Are you familiar with an anchor floating rig? They don’t get snagged on the rope

 

[Graeme Fraser]

So this is how we approach the problem - our methods are based on those used in UK waters.

We use a grapple anchor/hook as our weight (you can knock these up out of ree bar if you want something disposable.

We either use a Wasted shot or a Top Tensioned shot See Pic below or use this link

View attachment 517233


The first pair down attach the shot to the wreck if it's a complete miss the shot comes up on a bad and the divers under a dsmb

The boat is never attached to the shot. for drops the boat moves along side and drops the divers (1..2..3.. go!) The boat is then free to maneuver especially to pic up divers.

On the ascent divers use the shot then shoot their dsmb for pick up - or shoot from the bottom. Last pair shoot the shot line on a lift bag when they descend or at end of dive depending on current/vis

We don't need to signal a tie in

^^^^ this^^^. A very common method in UK waters, which I imagine are similar in viz, current and swell conditions to those in NE US.

Frankly anything has to be better than dumping more sh!try plastic in the sea!

 

[Johnoly]

Thanks for the input. Leaving an SMB attached presents a problem as currents shift, with it getting tangled up either with a diver or the anchor line itself..

The SMB is reeled in to be a shorter length of line than the Tie in. This way even if the boat does an almost 360 sweep, the smb line is on the inside circle and the tie in line is on an outside path circle. The 2 paths never cross until the boat has done a RARE 2 full 360 rotations.

So next .. you say that "using a chain is the main part of our problem" .. Interesting .. I'm open to suggestions on how to keep a 32 Ton boat tied into a rusting jagged edged steel wreck without using a chain. All ears ..

Since you are using a chain it can't be loosened against the weight of the 32 ton boat unless the captain moves the boat over the wreck to take the strain off.

It's dangerous to start the engines with divers still on the tie in line doing stops in order to loosen the strain. That means a diver has to wait until everyone is back on board and checked off the manifest. Then another or same tie-in diver has to Re-Drop to go untie at 130 feet. That's a hellava dangerous bounce dive and great way to get bent because you are using a chain that won't loosen.

In our case we splash with ~20 ft of rope coiled in our one hand. Swim the bare rope down to the wreck and do 3 wraps around a known ballord/machinery/etc (never a railing,they break). This is your strain tie in. Then move over a couple of feet and tie in your primary slip knot tie in and followed by your secondary tie in slip knot.

The last diver on the wreck does the un-tie and also does not begin his dive until the customers are half way or more thru their estimated dive time. He usually passes several of them on stops going down the line himself. At the end of his dive time, he yanks the double slip knot tie ins and lets the strain tie feed thru and sets the boat free. Then goes over and grabs the SMB reel and does a normal ascent.

20 feet of Frayed end rope that has to be cut off from chaffing is just part of the cost of doing business. If the authorities will let the captain, many of us have used a sunken beer keg pulled down by the boat 20 feet under the surface to be made an underwater hidden mooring bouy for the whole dive season. It works great and rec boats never see it. The divemaster just has a quick splash to both tie in and un tie and kegs are CHEAP and last longer than the rope. They float great upside down and pumped since the handles will be facing down to the wreck when tied off. A small ring or loop is the attachment point for the boat line. End of the season, cut the rope, retrieve the keg.

With a drop chain & ball, Someone has do a bounce dive to get the chain loose. And if it's the same installing diver, he's already got bubbles in his tissues no matter what green color his computer says. Doing a 130 bounce dive to retrieve/free the boat is just asking for a chamber ride. Sinking a keg is easy and cheap by pulling it down with boat backing up.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

So without knowing what boat you are referring to can I just Call BS... I have been on a lot of NJ Charter Boats and not as single one uses the method of plastic jugs...

I also see you are a member since yesterday - is this a TROLL? Cause I am smelling something Stinky...

 

[Stoo]

Up here, we just blow a bag of DSMB, tie it off and recover it later.

I've also seem a 'sorb jug used. A couple of hundred feet of line was tied to the handle and the line wrapped around it. I can't see using this if there's any current though. It's a load to schlepp.

 

[JackD342]

PADI has been using a corn starch based biodegradable packing peanut in their shipments lately. I wonder if there is some other such foam product that would meet the needs of the divers that are currently sending up foam cups. The peanuts are supposed to be water soluble. I tried it once - takes some patience, and some agitation of the water, but yes they do eventually dissolve away. They don't exactly dissolve like an Alka-Seltzer.