Uncertified Scoundrels Teaching the Public to Dive in Libya

[BoltSnap]

I was thinking of it more from the perspective that the OP shared. That the other Libyan instructors are con men because they don't pay a certification agency. Just like in the US, I bet Libya has no such requirement in order to teach scuba. Nor should it in my opinion. If these guys have some shady arrangement where they are issuing agency cards that they aren't really affiliated with then that's a civil matter between the student, instructor, and agency. That's in the realm of con/fraud, but not the instruction its-self. Regardless of the quality of that instruction.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the instruction sucked. There are plenty of totally legit dues paying instructors in the USA who suck if SB posts are to be believed. On the other hand, if scubaboard posts are to be believed, there are many self taught divers in the world who have lived to old age. None of those guys sound like savants to me when they post.

I'm not saying instruction is useless, just that is is not required. I'm glad I got the instruction I have received. I would do it again, and will undoubtedly pay for more instruction over the years.

I tried scuba (using unserviced gear that was like 30 years old) before I even met my first instructor. A friend loaned me the gear so I could fix a problem in my pool. Other than "don't hold your breath while ascending" and "don't drown/run out of air" there wasn't much to it. I think he also told me to ascend slower than my smallest bubble or something like that.

How is it different from a person claiming to be a physician and practicing medicine without proper education and license or practicing law or accounting or any other profession??

They are claiming to be instructors but they are not instructor by any agency nor have they received any training at all to qualify them to be instructors. Even teachers in all types of schools have to go through proper training and licensing to qualify as teachers including teaching cooking and sawing classes. The unsuspecting public has no idea about what it takes to become an instructor nor does it know what it takes to be a diver. Libya has one of the highest diver injury rates in the world, we have people doing multiple dives to 50 meters in a single day only to come up severely injured and die. In many parts of the world scuba instructors have to register with a responsible agency and provide authenticated copies of their credentials before they can teach just like medical personnel, accountants, teachers, et al. practice the profession they are qualified to practice. There are "instructors" here that teach their students to press their BC power inflator button to rise to the surface in any "difficult" situation underwater as an example. There are others who have no clue about decompression theory and proper dive table use (none of them do actually).

There are bad genuinely certified instructors all over the world just like there are bad medical doctors, bad lawyer, bad engineers, bad accountants but this doesn't take away from the requirement for proper and relevant credentials in all of these professions. It is one thing to be an untrained or unlicensed auto-mechanic or home painters but it is vastly different when it comes to free and scuba diver training.

 

[taimen]

Well, medicine, law and accounting are very regulated professions in most parts of the world. Scuba instruction is not. It is only self regulated by the industry itself. I agree that in most countries this self regulation is quite effective.

 

[BoltSnap]

Well, medicine, law and accounting are very regulated professions in most parts of the world. Scuba instruction is not. It is only self regulated by the industry itself. I agree that in most countries this self regulation is quite effective.

In the US, it is effective because I believe the civil court system and liability issues. I wonder if a "fake" instructor taught somebody to dive in the US and the student perished during the training or diving after the training with the "fake" instructor, would there be criminal implications on the "fake" instructor in addition to the civil court ramifications.

 

[KeithG]

Well, medicine, law and accounting are very regulated professions in most parts of the world. Scuba instruction is not. It is only self regulated by the industry itself. I agree that in most countries this self regulation is quite effective.

Agreed. I claim from a legal standpoint teaching scuba is like teaching finger painting.

Scuba diving is not as special as some of us want it to be.

 

[BoltSnap]

I claim from a legal standpoint teaching scuba is like teaching finger painting.

Until somebody gets killed or injured.

 

[CathyE]

Until somebody gets killed or injured.

Uncertified instructors teach people to drive cars every day. These students are also at risk of getting killed or injured.
Certified driving instructors are available for those to whom it is important.

The term "Fake" instructor is like "Fake" news. They may be "uncertified" instructors, but certification programs are for maintaining standards. It is up to the student to make an informed decision.

 

[BoltSnap]

Uncertified instructors teach people to drive cars every day. These students are also at risk of getting killed or injured.
Certified driving instructors are available for those to whom it is important.

The term "Fake" instructor is like "Fake" news. They may be "uncertified" instructors, but certification programs are for maintaining standards. It is up to the student to make an informed decision.

One somebody puts advertisement that they are are "instructors" and offer training programs for money and promote the heck out of it on the internet and run courses and take money from people and they aren't certified and current instructors, they are "fake" instructors and committing a fraud in addition to endangering the unknowing unsuspecting public.

 

[kelemvor]

How is it different from a person claiming to be a physician and practicing medicine without proper education and license or practicing law or accounting or any other profession??

They are claiming to be instructors but they are not instructor by any agency nor have they received any training at all to qualify them to be instructors. Even teachers in all types of schools have to go through proper training and licensing to qualify as teachers including teaching cooking and sawing classes. The unsuspecting public has no idea about what it takes to become an instructor nor does it know what it takes to be a diver. Libya has one of the highest diver injury rates in the world, we have people doing multiple dives to 50 meters in a single day only to come up severely injured and die. In many parts of the world scuba instructors have to register with a responsible agency and provide authenticated copies of their credentials before they can teach just like medical personnel, accountants, teachers, et al. practice the profession they are qualified to practice. There are "instructors" here that teach their students to press their BC power inflator button to rise to the surface in any "difficult" situation underwater as an example. There are others who have no clue about decompression theory and proper dive table use (none of them do actually).

There are bad genuinely certified instructors all over the world just like there are bad medical doctors, bad lawyer, bad engineers, bad accountants but this doesn't take away from the requirement for proper and relevant credentials in all of these professions. It is one thing to be an untrained or unlicensed auto-mechanic or home painters but it is vastly different when it comes to free and scuba diver training.

I am pretty sure the requirements to "practice medicine" in many parts of the world are not very stringent.
However, in the USA I would hardly compare a scuba instructor to a medical doctor. Scuba instructors "official" card can be obtained in a few months of training. It takes like 20 years of formal education to become a medical doctor in the US. Still, there are plenty of practicing doctors in third world countries that don't have all that training. I bet they can set a broken leg.

I think you do scuba instructors, even uncertified ones, a disservice in comparing them to lawyers.

 

[CathyE]

One somebody puts advertisement that they are are "instructors" and offer training programs for money and promote the heck out of it on the internet and run courses and take money from people and they aren't certified and current instructors, they are "fake" instructors and committing a fraud in addition to endangering the unknowing unsuspecting public.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

 

[BoltSnap]

I am pretty sure the requirements to "practice medicine" in many parts of the world are not very stringent.
However, in the USA I would hardly compare a scuba instructor to a medical doctor. Scuba instructors "official" card can be obtained in a few months of training. It takes like 20 years of formal education to become a medical doctor in the US. Still, there are plenty of practicing doctors in third world countries that don't have all that training. I bet they can set a broken leg.

And they get paid at a different scale to account for the trouble each goes through for training, liability, etc.

In most parts of the world practicing medicine as a "physician" and advertising as being one and taking patience in for medical treatment without proper credentials, strict or not, is a violation of law. I am here talking about medical doctors and not witch doctors.

In regards to lawyers, just like there are good medical doctors and bad ones, there are good lawyers and there are bad one.