Unqualified Divers in Caves--especially ones like Eagles Nest

[The Chairman]

Can someone help me with this? Does this mean that the light the diver uses for navigation is primarily from sunlight and not from a dive light?

If there's no sun light, then you're not in the cavern zone. Now, this doesn't mean you can't use a light, but sunlight must always be visible. Sure, I've seen this standard broken all the time. I don't think the classes I've seen break this are in danger, but the line has been blurred. Most instructors use distance/depth rather than seeing the sun. That can't be blurred. BTW, you really can't do a cavern dive at night. I've seen that done by cavern divers at Ginnie.

 

[boulderjohn]

If there's no sun light, then you're not in the cavern zone. Now, this doesn't mean you can't use a light, but sunlight must always be visible.

"Sunlight being visible" was what I was always taught. That is very different from "sunlight is your primary light source."

 

[KevinNM]

Look at the illustration on the cover of the NSS-CDS cavern diver manual. There is an annotated version deep inside the manual. (You can find a PDF online.). It shows the forbidden spaces and why you can't go there.

 

[Jack Hammer]

The trouble with using lights on a cavern dive is it is very easy to continue into the cave unintentionally and then have little, if any, idea where the exit is. This has been and continues to be a pronlem with unfortunate outcomes.

 

[The Chairman]

The trouble with using lights on a cavern dive is it is very easy to continue into the cave unintentionally and then have little, if any, idea where the exit is.

You should still have an uninterrupted line to the surface.

 

[Jack Hammer]

The entrance to EN is a restriction that prevents two divers from easily swimming side by side. That alone disqualifies it as eligible for cavern divers before you even enter the cave.

 

[boulderjohn]

Look at the illustration on the cover of the NSS-CDS cavern diver manual. There is an annotated version deep inside the manual. (You can find a PDF online.). It shows the forbidden spaces and why you can't go there.

I went to that manual--thank you. I found the definition, and from that I would say that almost all the caverns I have been in, nearly none meets that definition for much or most of the accepted cavern area.

 

[Six Feet Under]

Someone could easily interpret this sign as... "Well, I'm not going into the cave or cave diving. I'm going into the cavern zone." Of which only one agency (that I'm aware of), NSS-CDS, has stated there is no cavern zone.

View attachment 389549

The last line seems pretty clear to me...

It's closer to Tampa, cheap, and you can give out unearned prestige for diving "The Mount Everest of Cave Diving" to Walter Mitty types.

Mostly the first two reasons. I have a friend (who is full cave, trimix, CCR, and has dove there before) who dives there somewhat frequently because it's only a 35-40 minute drive to the Nest instead of a 105-140 minute drive to anywhere in cave country from where he lives, and there's a shop between where we live and the Nest that fills any type of gas you'd need.

One day I'll be able to join him, but for now... absolutely no chance, no matter how tempting it is. Being only intro certified (and not yet having done any kind of mix training or even AN/DP), I'm not going in there. Last thing I want to be is another new headline over something stupid like being too lazy to drive an extra 30 minutes to stick my head underwater.

It means as a newly certified whatever level diver, you need to gradually expand your experience base. When diving in new environments get training/mentoring from somebody experienced in that new to you environment.

But really, as instructors, we SHOULD be moving our students from the "easy" environments to the ones they are likely to be actually diving in. Even at the OW level, we see all ow dives done in a spring..yet the divers will be most likely diving off boats. Do a day at the springs then a day on boat..expand their experience in training. But it doesn't happen because of money, time and convenience over educational quality and outcomes

Yup. I realized shortly after being certified that my PADI Open Water class was not worth the money I spent, but it was because of the shop and instructor I took it through, not necessarily PADI... although I never went back to that organization for any further training.

"Sunlight being visible" was what I was always taught. That is very different from "sunlight is your primary light source."

Same.

 

[Jack Hammer]

You should still have an uninterrupted line to the surface.

"should..."

 

[RainPilot]

Normalisation of deviation, anyone?