UTD Essentials of Recreational Diving - What graduates say

[randytay]

Looks like you got the answer to that, and it sounds reasonable to me that advertising courses wouldn't be allowed in the Basic Scuba Discussions forum. However, I have some sympathy. With the discussion now digressing into Ratio Deco, you can bet that any new-ish diver looking at this thread with an eye toward (as I once did) how to improve his RECREATIONAL diving, will be turned off from the Essentials of Recreational Diving course.

Always good to have both sides of the argument

 

[boulderjohn]

That only illustrates the issue with one instructor, not the organizational philosophy of UTD.

No, that is emblematic of a philosophy that says do everything exactly our way, and don't question it. I questioned it. I know the consequences.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, that is emblematic of a philosophy that says do everything exactly our way, and don't question it. I questioned it. I know the consequences.

While I think John and I don't look at GUE/UTD/ISE the same way, I have to agree that in my limited experience that questioning values/ideas don't always go over well. There are things that I love about these agencies in terms of skills, and I understand the motivation behind a number of practices, but not all. I know I'm not done butting heads either, but that's okay by me.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I know I'm not done butting heads either, but that's okay by me.

There's a reason why an ex-girlfriend used to refer to me as "Contrarius".

 

[Lorenzoid]

No, that is emblematic of a philosophy that says do everything exactly our way, and don't question it. I questioned it. I know the consequences.

John, do you feel GUE has the same sort of philosophy? Just curious.

 

[vam]

I voted yes, because I am currently enrolled in EoR. I've done the classroom / closed water components and need to do the OW components. I have found the buoyancy and propulsion bits to be fantastic and recommend the course to other divers with PADI backgrounds. I find the fact that dive computers are not allowed other than in gauge mode crazy, and I won't dive that way other than for my certification dives. I think the online training has a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Peter Guy]

I took Essentials before UTD existed -- took Fundies a little while later -- finally passed Fundies because I took diving lessons from Andrew G.

I know a few UTD instructors, a few GUE instructors, have been diving with both. Heck, diving is diving (at least at my level) and good training is good training.

I took Essentials because it was a bit less strict on equipment (at that time) than Fundies.

It is my belief that the "average recreational diver" will get an awful lot from either class. And yes, they really aren't all that different (at least not "way back when") in the basic skills introduced and taught. (Heck, PADI's TecReational Distinctive Specialty isn't REALLY all that much different either if you can find an instructor certified to teach it as it is based on both Essentials and Fundies.)

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

True! Content wise there may not be a lot of difference. I do feel that as business models UTD and GUE are worlds apart. GUE instructors have realized that very few people want to do technical diving and they have limited customers out there. If they make more GUE instructors, the limited customer pool gets divided between them and each instructor ends up with less and less customers to train. For this reason, the agency makes it impossible for any newcomer to become an instructor. If your goal is to teach, then GUE is really not the agency for it. The "legends" that found the agency are not interested in sharing their students with you.

UTD wants to grow. Unlike GUE, UTD is a for-profit organization and every time you take a UTD course you pay like 99. USD just for the online access to materials. This money goes to the top guy and the more instructors that are out there the more courses they sell and the more profit is generated for the guy at the top. This business model is more liberal and is intended to grow the instructor core rather than limit them.

If we were to compare one single course like GUE-Fundies VS UTD-Essentials then they may appear to be very similar but with a course like that, you are not choosing the course but also a community that you will become a member of for the rest of your life. The organizational culture will be pretty different. UTD tends to treat you like a paying customer while GUE seems to have more of the "cave-diver hero worship" mind set where you know you will never be good enough to teach because a Prophet can never be replaced by his disciple sort of a thing.

In the end, both agencies give you a very competent community of divers to dive with so if they goal is recreational diving for the rest of your life then the above should not matter much either ways.

 

[boulderjohn]

Did you really mean to say PADI there? It seems like you might have meant UTD.

Nope, I meant PADI.

I was a PADI instructor and a UTD student at the same time. When I was concerned by the UTD belief that altitude had no effect on decompression and asked questions about that in the ScubaBoard thread, there was nothing UTD could do about it in terms of that agency. They have no control over what a student writes in a forum like this. On the other hand, PADI has a standard for its instructors that prevents them from making derogatory statements about other agencies in public. Therefore, the threat was that if I made another statement that raised any questions about the UTD belief that altitude had no impact on decompression, then UTD would report me to PADI for making derogatory statements about their agency. I was warned that I could potentially lose my PADI instructor status were I to continue. In theory, I run that risk with the posts I have made in this thread.

I do not, however, believe I have made any derogatory statements. I have simply stated what I was told at the time. I did not disparage those statements. I gave no opinion about them. If people don't like what I wrote, that is their interpretation, not mine.

 

[stuartv]

Nope, I meant PADI.

I was a PADI instructor and a UTD student at the same time. When I was concerned by the UTD belief that altitude had no effect on decompression and asked questions about that in the ScubaBoard thread, there was nothing UTD could do about it in terms of that agency. They have no control over what a student writes in a forum like this. On the other hand, PADI has a standard for its instructors that prevents them from making derogatory statements about other agencies in public. Therefore, the threat was that if I made another statement that raised any questions about the UTD belief that altitude had no impact on decompression, then UTD would report me to PADI for making derogatory statements about their agency. I was warned that I could potentially lose my PADI instructor status were I to continue. In theory, I run that risk with the posts I have made in this thread.

I do not, however, believe I have made any derogatory statements. I have simply stated what I was told at the time. I did not disparage those statements. I gave no opinion about them. If people don't like what I wrote, that is their interpretation, not mine.

Ah ha. I did not understand from your earlier post that it was an email from UTD threatening to report you to PADI. I got it now.