• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Vascular Microbubbles Sensor

Discussion in 'Ask Dr. Decompression' started by Ghattas, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. Ghattas

    Ghattas Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Everywhere
    30
    9
    8
  2. Pozz

    Pozz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Italy
    24
    6
    3
    the idea is fascinating, but the price is very steep for an unproven software (ultrasonic dopplers can be found for less than 50$)
    self evaluation of venous bubbles after diving has come up on this board a few times already but I am not aware if there is any scientific consensus on its usefulness
     
  3. Caveeagle

    Caveeagle Rebreather Pilot

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: High Springs, FL
    1,550
    1,044
    113
    Haven’t tried it personally, but have been following it with interest. Doppler technology has been around for a while and was used in the late 80s-early90s to perfect custom dive tables during the early Eagles Nest exploration. Probably more than that that I am unaware of...
     
  4. Germie

    Germie Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Netherlands
    589
    442
    63
    I have seen a demo. They put measurements in 4 grades: 1 till 4. 4 has most bubbles. You have to upload your diveprofile via Subsurface in the app, then you have the doppler measurement and together it gives points on how 'risky' the dive was. You also can upload a profile without measurement and also see if it was risky or less risky. Then you can simulate how you can improve your profile by taking another decogas, or do deco on a higher PO2 than 1.3 on ccr. Or if you make the last stop longer. Or take other bottomgas, etc.
    Adding helium to your backgas if it is air is a profit.
    It is interesting, but sadly expensive. I also don't know if you will do all the efford in uploading profiles and measurements every time (I now never do this). But if I get the chance to try a measurement, I will do.
     
  5. Duke Dive Medicine

    Duke Dive Medicine Medical Moderator Staff Member

    2,424
    2,023
    113
    Looks like cool technology. It seems like there's a subscription service for interpreting the results, so there's probably an ongoing cost to it. Also, DCS risk and VGE grade are highly individual and are only loosely correlated so it's not clear how they're quantifying decompression quality. You'd have to have a robust individual baseline along with outcomes (DCS symptoms vs no DCS symptoms) for it to be truly accurate.

    Best regards,
    DDM
     
  6. atdotde

    atdotde Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Munich, Germany
    167
    142
    43
    There are some references to scientific papers on the web page, some of those about Doppler scanning some others about estimating DCS risks using some index. Unfortunately, none of those accessible through my university library. I would in particular be interested in

    « Decompression models: review, relevance and validation capabilities » Hugon J, (Vol 41, No 6) Undersea Hyperb. Med., Hugon J. 2014.

    Maybe somebody else has access and is willing to share the pdf with robert@thetheoreticaldiver.org ?
     
  7. Akimbo

    Akimbo Lift to Freedom Volunteer Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    8,916
    7,294
    113
    A group from NEDU (Naval Experimental Diving Unit) used it on us as part of the evaluation program on the Mark II Deep Dive System in 1972. I understand NEDU starting playing with it in the late 1960s.

    Sign me up for the implanted version. :)
     
  8. Johnoly

    Johnoly Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location:
    2,331
    1,764
    113
    I've sat thru hundreds of hours of DAN seminars on bubbles. And to this day bubble analysis is an "Art" not a science. Just because there is a flood of bubbles doesn't always mean 'bad'. It's also the size/shape and strength of bubbles that's even more important. We still don't have an accurate method of prediction on how some tiny bubbles at depth combine to form larger bubbles and some tiny bubbles don't combine into larger bubbles.

    Using a 'service' to give results/analysis of bubbles from someone unknown??? No Way!. I can count on one hand the number of people I would trust with years of experience to give a credible bubble analysis. You don't just look at the video and say "wow, that's a flood of bubbles". It doesn't work that way.
     
  9. Akimbo

    Akimbo Lift to Freedom Volunteer Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    8,916
    7,294
    113
    True, but collecting more data "might" ultimately lead to converting the art into a science. Hopefully this is another baby-step toward the goal of individual physiology-guided decompression instead of time-depth-mix averages that have an acceptable hit rate.
     
  10. Duke Dive Medicine

    Duke Dive Medicine Medical Moderator Staff Member

    2,424
    2,023
    113
    ^ That.
     
    Johnoly likes this.

Share This Page