VDH BP/W package review

[tbone1004]

Entertaining thread! Getting back to the original topic, I have a couple of questions:

What is integrated roll control and how does it work?

Are the shell and bladder heavier than the DGX?

integrated roll control is basically a set of stiff rubber hoses that sit on either side of the spine of the tank. They basically act like a wheel chock between the plate and the tank.

You can see the wing below, and the roll control bars are the little black pouches on the right side of the center reinforcement with the grommets. Most manufacturers use this style of roll control because it's quick and easy.

Deep Sea Supply uses a custom injection molded STA on their wings which is super nifty. Dive Rite does not have the ability to use any sort of roll control because of the crosshair center section of their wings. This crosshair is necessary for compatibility with the Transpac which does not need any sort of roll control as it is a soft plate. They also invented the STA, and as a company focused mainly on cave diving, single tank wings aren't really their priority, especially with the Travelpac and it's siblings for dedicated single tank diving. The DGX wing is a direct copy of the Travel wing from Dive Rite, unfortunately including the crosshairs which I love for doubles, but is restricting with singles.

Also, as of note, the VDH wing is actually an inch narrower than the DGX wing and only 2" longer

Outer bladder is 1680d nylon on both
inner bladder is 210d on DGX and 400d on VDH.

The inner bladder is the same as what Halcyon uses on their wings, the 210d on the DGX is much thinner

 

[49north]

integrated roll control is basically a set of stiff rubber hoses that sit on either side of the spine of the tank. They basically act like a wheel chock between the plate and the tank.

You can see the wing below, and the roll control bars are the little black pouches on the right side of the center reinforcement with the grommets. Most manufacturers use this style of roll control because it's quick and easy.

View attachment 462475

Deep Sea Supply uses a custom injection molded STA on their wings which is super nifty. Dive Rite does not have the ability to use any sort of roll control because of the crosshair center section of their wings. This crosshair is necessary for compatibility with the Transpac which does not need any sort of roll control as it is a soft plate. They also invented the STA, and as a company focused mainly on cave diving, single tank wings aren't really their priority, especially with the Travelpac and it's siblings for dedicated single tank diving. The DGX wing is a direct copy of the Travel wing from Dive Rite, unfortunately including the crosshairs which I love for doubles, but is restricting with singles.

Also, as of note, the VDH wing is actually an inch narrower than the DGX wing and only 2" longer

Outer bladder is 1680d nylon on both
inner bladder is 210d on DGX and 400d on VDH.

The inner bladder is the same as what Halcyon uses on their wings, the 210d on the DGX is much thinner

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

Earlier in this thread there was much discussion about manufacturers overstating or understating lift capacity or just simply not knowing what the lift capacity really is. The DGX wing is supposed to be 25lb and the VDH is supposed to be 18lb. Has anyone actually tested them to see what they really are?

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

Earlier in this thread there was much discussion about manufacturers overstating or understating lift capacity or just simply not knowing what the lift capacity really is. The DGX wing is supposed to be 25lb and the VDH is supposed to be 18lb. Has anyone actually tested them to see what they really are?

On page 4 of the thread you can see pictures of me testing the #18 wing. It actually came out to be #21 but as others have pointed out that could vary a bit depending on plate used. I used a standard DIR style plate but it you used the VDH or Freedom plate it could be a little more....Lex reported from Truk that he thinks his is closer to #20.
I will continue to advertise and promote the #18 as just that. I'd rather it have a bit more lift than advertised than a bit less. Either way it is the most compact and versatile travel sized wing on the market.
When I get more #35's later this month I will do the exact same test and post the results in a new thread.

 

[tbone1004]

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

Earlier in this thread there was much discussion about manufacturers overstating or understating lift capacity or just simply not knowing what the lift capacity really is. The DGX wing is supposed to be 25lb and the VDH is supposed to be 18lb. Has anyone actually tested them to see what they really are?

I haven't dug through the big part of the thread, but I did start the discussion on lift capacity.

I outlined how Tobin does it on his wings which IMO gives the most conservative lift capacity for the wing. Fresh water vs. salt, 8" tank vs 7.25" or smaller, and worn on the body in case that changes anything with where it can press on you. Many other manufacturers do calculated volume based on dimensions, or they just fill them off of the rigs. The Travel wing is quite wide, and if used with an STA, I don't doubt it gets 25lbs of lift, but I know that on my Freedom plate, it was close enough to the tank that it was restricted on the top and bottom and couldn't be fully inflated.

I would like @Bryan@Vintage Double Hose to use that same protocol with his plates and wings to validate the true lift capacity, but from what others have said about the Oxycheq wings that they are based on, I doubt there will be any change unless the double hose plate restricts anything up top

Sidemount rigs are the ones you have to be REALLY careful with though as their capacity can vary widely based on your physical dimensions as well as how the harnesses are rigged. I.e. the loop bungee kits on a Dive Rite Nomad restrict the upper portion of the bladder, super tight waist belts can cause compression on the bottom, wrapping around your body if you are narrower than the rig etc. Most of the single tank rigs are going to be within a pound or so if their called out lift.

I brought it up with this one mainly because of how it looked with the tank that I mounted it to and it was not able to inflate fully while I was wearing it with the Kraken. It may well be different on the standard backplates, but the only ones that matters are the ones Bryan is selling with his wings

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

@tbone1004 @Eric Sedletzky I'm satisfied with the test I demonstrated yesterday with the #18 wing. And the feedback from Lex in Truk that the wing has a couple pounds + capacity than the #18 I advertise it at. Eric pointed out and I would agree that when used with a freedom plate and or VDH plate that it may be a little more as the plates are more narrow on the sides.
I will replicate the same test using the same plate/harness/cylinder as I did with the #18 as soon as I get a #35 back in stock. I currently have 9 e-mails requesting that I reserve a #35's for various divers so I don't see them lasting long. IF the test proves out that the capacity is below #35 I will immediately fix this with the manufacturer or simply re-label the tag and advertise the correct capacity. At the moment I tend to believe it will be well within it's advertised range.

 

[StefinSB]

If getting hung up on exact specifications works for your business model then great. If quality products and exceptional customer service is enough for Brian then what’s that to you.

So if you buy two pounds of meat at the butcher and receive only one you don’t care? I like Brian and his vintage regulator products but, gheez, both parties should get together and have a few beers. They would realize the next morning that they they have more in common with regards to supplying products that customers need than not.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

So if you buy two pounds of meat at the butcher and receive only one you don’t care? I like Brian and his vintage regulator products but, gheez, both parties should get together and have a few beers. They would realize the next morning that they they have more in common with regards to supplying products that customers need than not.

At the request of the boss and other moderators the BS is over and done with. I'd appreciate it if we didn't stir the pot again. Thank you

 

[uncfnp]

So if you buy two pounds of meat at the butcher and receive only one you don’t care? I like Brian and his vintage regulator products but, gheez, both parties should get together and have a few beers. They would realize the next morning that they they have more in common with regards to supplying products that customers need than not.

I guess it is a question of tolerences. For some things it needs to be very prescise, such as jet engines. For others some imprecision is tolerated. Wing lift may be one such. For me a pound or two is not important. And since, as I understand it, there will be variations with each persons specific configuration, prescise measure becomes even less important. I know lift has been questioned in other streamline, low profile wings including my other favorite wing, the Oxycheq brand.

As with all products, it’s a question of what features are important to you.

Excluding DSS, are wing lift tolerences always exact with other manufacturers?

 

[tbone1004]

Excluding DSS, are wing lift tolerences always exact with other manufacturers?

rarely, most pick some nominal value and it may be high or low depending on how they calculated or measured it

 

[Charred]

@tbone1004

I need a replacement wing for my DSS wing to go on a DSS plate. Since you have both, can you comment on if the VDH wing will work with the DSS plate using just cam bands to secure the wing?

Thanks!