VIP Inspectors: Identifiable vs Identified

[rhwestfall]

I will (and have) put my money where my mouth is. Open and inspect my self-inspected tank. If it needs remedial, I'll pay full cost. If it is fine, you eat the cost...

 

[Wookie]

Agreed. But do you evaluate the same person that gets on your boat time and time again? I could understand evaluating the 1st VIP, after that there's no reason to.

This is apples to oranges....

But I'll continue.

Did you charge them extra to evaluate them, or was it all part of your standard operation?

This is specifically singling out, and a blanket discredit to trained inspectors...

Yes. And if you were personal friends with Mike, and were hanging out on the couch drinking beers, you might get a pass. But this is the case of a shop who had to make a policy. I had policies as well, none about cylinders except they had to be in Hydro (we didn't care about VIP, they aren't the law). So we didn't fill cylinders not in hydro. We had written procedures, however, that applied to everyone and those procedures were onerous to some. We lost customers over it. They allowed me to keep my insurance policy and sleep well at night.

Mike has not even lost a customer. Even you would stop into DRIS if you cruised by his shop. He's been forced to create a procedure and he's following it.

 

[Schwob]

The first time I emptied a pretty new, bought that year AL19 to ready it for a flight, I close the top with one layer of easily removed clear 3M packaging tape. Nicely labeled for my special friends at the TSA as to where to pull to remove. After arriving at the destination (Key Largo) I found the tape still in place, flat over the top. It was full, very full of aluminum chips. I did my first ever (then not certified) tank inspection right then. Shook and washed a bunch more chips out of the tank. Used my toothbrush to clean more yet out of the thread.

That tank sure had a pretty new VIS sticker from the shop on it. Actually inspected it certainly was not. The shop owner heard about it. I got an apology and a declaration that that should nor have happened and an assurance that won't ever happen again and considered it water under the bridge, but trust definitively was lost!

Now, that turn of events (described in this thread) may change how I feel about it a bunch, because:

I right then and there asked if the shop offers a visual inspection class as I preferred to do it myself going forward. With my small number of tanks and valuing my time and the cert now in need of being renewed all three years it's not about the money at all. It's about lost trust and a lesson learned. They did not offer the class at the time as they at the time did not have a trainer fir it anymore. (I think they do now), So, I ended up taking one with @abnfrog when ice diving there anyway. Good class.

In the (not so recent) past that shop filled my first self inspected tanks. My cert# and agency is on the sticker. My name is not (it's on the cert card, I can show it, the shop can look it up...)

I'd find it rather ironic if the very shop that with their lax or lacking action caused me to take the VIS inspection class in the first place we're to ask me "all of the above" to get my tanks filled. Sounds like they will. I'll see in due time.

That said, I think their supervised do your VIS there offer is great. I'd do it in a heartbeat.... if it wasn't requiring to take a day off work for it. If that is the case indeed... I have to think harder about what is next. Not a fan of that situation at all - if that's what it is...

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Yes. And if you were personal friends with Mike, and were hanging out on the couch drinking beers, you might get a pass. But this is the case of a shop who had to make a policy. I had policies as well, none about cylinders except they had to be in Hydro (we didn't care about VIP, they aren't the law). So we didn't fill cylinders not in hydro. We had written procedures, however, that applied to everyone and those procedures were onerous to some. We lost customers over it. They allowed me to keep my insurance policy and sleep well at night.

Mike has not even lost a customer. Even you would stop into DRIS if you cruised by his shop. He's been forced to create a procedure and he's following it.

None of my questions / statements are meant to be directed at DRIS or the quality of their shop. The little that I have heard and seen online, and the few exchanges I've had I've never been anything but 100% satisfied, which is kind of why I stopped using their name a few posts back. I would stop by and I wish they were closer....it's just a 12 hr drive

It is interesting to talk about and learn about they're policy. Most would agree that it's a little bogus. I understand why it's implemented, but it wasn't done with common sense.

 

[Marie13]

Hah - how many @abnfrog VIP students in this thread - four?

 

[_Ralph]

Hmmmm, this reminds me of a story of when I did my inspection training.

I asked the shop where I get my fills in town, if they would fill my tanks if I VIP them. They said yes! (I also would be saving ~20 tanks worth of work for them)
I asked other shops I frequent and they all said yes. Even the shop that trained me.


A few other local divers I know did the training too, but didn't check that part out (could they still get fills). Needless to say, some of the same shops won't fill their tanks....

It wasn't a competency issue, just those shops have some history with some of their practices on other gear maintenance/repair..

Like buying a car, gotta keep an eye out for what the salesman isn't telling you...

_R

 

[Couv]

Just when I was ready to say something like the bottom line is this:

To allow another shop to do a vip and fill and then they fill is no different than @Marie13 doing a vip herself. There's no way to "know" if someone did it right, and I'd put $$$ on it that she would do a more thorough job than the "other" shop because she owns and depends on those tanks.

@Wookie throws this in.

Mike...'s been forced to create a procedure and he's following it.

Not having worked in a LDS since the 1980ies-I've forgotten how things behind the scenes can cause common sense to get thrown out the window. I'll take a WAG here and suppose it has something to do with a "suggestion" from DRIS's insurance/legal gurus. However, I would like to hear Frank go a bit deeper into the subject.

@Marie13 I'm hoping you can work things out with the shop-you've invested (not wasted) a lot of time and probably expense in getting this cert. Perhaps a bit more time and a few more dollars will sort things out to both your LDS and your satisfaction.

 

[Marie13]

Just found out the repair dept guys will stay late on a weeknight.

 

[rjack321]

Just found out the repair dept guys will stay late on a weeknight.

As far as the other po-dunk shops you may need to get a fill at in the future, you can call ahead and double check they are good with your generic VIP stickers. I suggest you approach this conversations carefully - its not like you are ever going to be their VIP customer anyway.

The absolute worst is when shops get in a spat and actively refuse to accept each others certs (for VIPs or anything else) - seems like ridiculous dive politics and it is.

 

[Marie13]

As far as the other po-dunk shops you may need to get a fill at in the future, you can call ahead and double check they are good with your generic VIP stickers. I suggest you approach this conversations carefully - its not like you are ever going to be their VIP customer anyway.

The absolute worst is when shops get in a spat and actively refuse to accept each others certs (for VIPs or anything else) - seems like ridiculous dive politics and it is.

I mailed off the remaining SDI “generic” stickers I had to Lowviz this morning. I’ll be using the DRIS stickers if I do the VIP there.

I’m not taking the risk of being unable to get fills on vacation.