Vortex Missing Diver Incident - Aug 2010

[Hetland]

You don't even know that the dive took place or that he has died.

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1. Ben (or someone posting on facebook pretending to be Ben) planned this dive.

2. There is evidence that Ben took actions in the past to facilitate this particular dive (modifying the gate)

3. People don't typically abandon hundreds (or thousands depending on the brands) of dollars worth of equipment underwater.

4. People don't typically abandon their only known means of conveyance.
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When you consider the above, you can only come to a few conclusions. The most obvious and logical is that Ben executed a dive and got lost in a very complex and dangerous cave system. The next most logical conclusion is that Ben is perpetrating a fraud. If this was FraudBoard, or HoaxBoard, then we would be discussing the other possibilities, but this is scubaboard.

Some of the people you are complaining about are the ones that risked their lives to recover the dead body of your friend. They didn't get a paycheck, and they didn't do it to get their names in the paper, they did it for his family, so that they could have closure, and so that the diving community could learn from the incident, and hopefully prevent the next person from getting killed. The recovery effort has cost these people money out of their own pockets. Time out of their own lives. If they want to post their opinions about what happened, then they have earned that right.

If it turns out that Ben is alive, then we will all be happy for his friends and family. He will owe a debt that will be hard to repay, but we will still be happy he is alive. In the meantime, there is value in discussing the most likely chain of events.

That value is not in the trashing of Ben personally (which very few here have done) but in the trashing of an untrained person going into a very dangerous situation, and getting himself killed.

We'd all likely drink a beer with the guy, and appreciate what he has done to help others in his life, but his alleged ACTIONS must be dissected, condemned and ridiculed. Otherwise his loss will be truly meaningless.

 

[Cave Diver]

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[Cave Diver]

Attached by request: Vortex Map & Aerial View

Edit - Aerial map updated per Dive-aholics correction.

 

[Meister481]

There have been quite a few questions about the gasses the diver used. Does anyone know where he purchased the gas (if commercially) or if it was home brew? Has anyone interviewed the fill station?

There was also a question about flow. I was there in March and the flow was higher than normal in the area and most caves were pushing pretty hard. At the time of my last dive there the flow was heavy and steady everywhere, with heavier flow at restrictions.

I looked it up in my log and from the time I hit the gate to the time I turned was approximately 23 minutes, and it only took 12 minutes to reach the gate again-without kicking. I was really moving it on the way in so that should tell you something.

As an example P1 to Olsen takes me 30-35 minutes at a normal pace.

 

[Splitlip]

Wow.

I realize now we have not heard from Perrone in a long time.
I hope all is well with you.

Thanks for contributing.

*sigh*

I don't post here on SB very much anymore. But those who know me, or have been in the water with me will hopefully understand what I am about to say.

After about 75-100 cave dives, I stepped away from it a few years ago. Some speculated it was because of the loss of my friend and former dive buddy at Jackson Blue. Some thought I had just lost interest, or that I got scared from a frightening experience I had in local cave. But really none of that was true.

The sad and true reason I stepped away from the sport was something mentioned a while back in this tread. It was the attitudes surrounding the sport. The attitudes by non-divers, by OW divers, and most often by certified cave divers.

The attitude that unless you push farther, deeper, and longer you are somehow "less qualified" or less of a "caver". The utter dismissal of the concept that someone may only be interested in doing shorter, less complex cave dives, even if they want a full certification card. The concept that the "goal" of diving a cave is not to reach the end of the line necessarily, or push new cave, or add to a map.

As much as we might not like it, our community breeds this thinking. It's ingrained in the training and curriculum, it's a topic of conversation at our annual conferences, and it's in our monthly journals. It is SO easy to get caught up in this beautiful and fun sport. The venturing into the unknown, or never-before seen. The desire to see things we've only read about in books. It's a place of wondrous adventure.

But all too often, it attracts exactly the wrong people to it. While there are hundreds of perfectly calm, responsible cave divers out there, there are the fringe groups who do it for the rush, or who do it for all the wrong reasons. Some of us ignore the warning signs. Others of us, see them, and try to raise the flag only to be summarily ignored. Someone here asked what can we do to save these people. Sadly, sometimes the answer is nothing.

In one case, I spoke to an individual's instructor on more than one occasion. I spoke to the diver twice and it caused a rift which was never healed. Finally, I simply refused to dive with that person again. Inside a year, he was dead.

I've lost friends to this sport. I've watched other friends do recoveries (like one working on this present recovery). And in one notable case, a friend of mine has had to recover another friend. At what point do we as a community own up to our behavior? At what point do we stop selling gas, or giving keys or information to those divers who do not act in the best interest of our sport? They won't police themselves. We have to do it, or watch the sport get vilified in the press, and the sites closed.

Maybe one well known agency has it right with cards that expire. Personally, I like that idea, but it handles the problem on the wrong end. We as a community of divers, instructors, site operators, fill operators, etc, NEED to have a way to recognize those who are consistently abusing our sport, and refuse to give these people the tools, means, and opportunity to put a black eye on the sport. I fear until that coordinated effort happens, we will continue to read about unfortunate accidents such as this. Yea, I know it's very "Big Brother", but if we don't handle the problem the REAL Big Brother will.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Attached by request: Vortex Map & Aerial View

That isn't a very good map. There's a profile map that is a little better. Also, the cave is actually the dark spot just below the arrow in that aerial view.



As for the flow, it's up there, but not that bad. We made it to the last restriction (about 1500') in less than 30 minutes and that included searching the small alcoves along the main passage.

 

[Jack Hammer]

There's been much mention of the "deco bottle" and stages being recovered. Has there been an analysis of the gas in them yet? If so what were they analyzed as? Lastly, I've read quite a few mentions that he was diving on "air," if there has not been a recovery how can anyone be positive what he was breathing?

Thanks and I apologize if this has been answered already.

 

[Cave Diver]

That isn't a very good map. There's a profile map that is a little better. Also, the cave is actually the dark spot just below the arrow in that aerial view.

If anyone has links to better maps, PM me and I can modify the attachments to include them.

 

[ReeferBen]

I believe this is the gate at the springs people are talking about so you can get an idea. Pic belongs to Taucher-Tom

 

[mike_s]

If anyone has links to better maps, PM me and I can modify the attachments to include them.

I don't know if I'd call this one "better". but it offers a different perspective on it. (this was one posted in the other thread. I don't think it made it over to this thread. ).